rishan, terminator seeds, patented by monsanto, dont reseed, making farmers dependent on buying seeds year after year. this is fairly common knowledge. they do a lot of genetic engineering and some of it is specifically intended to make people dependent on them. like monsanto peddling the specific seeds that are resistant to their roundup poison insecticide.

mosanto is not your friend, sorry and gmo's are a sketchy proposition and DEFINITELY not what we should be banking global food production on

tripledouble - 03 February 2012 07:02 PM

rishan, terminator seeds, patented by monsanto, dont reseed, making farmers dependent on buying seeds year after year. this is fairly common knowledge. they do a lot of genetic engineering and some of it is specifically intended to make people dependent on them. like monsanto peddling the specific seeds that are resistant to their roundup poison insecticide.

mosanto is not your friend, sorry and gmo's are a sketchy proposition and DEFINITELY not what we should be banking global food production on

it's not just monsanto though, everyone does this - bayer, johnsons, british seed houses, syngenta, barenbrug. if we are going to get into this argument, might as well talk about the ethics of the clothes on our backs and where our laptop components are made etc. it's just how the world works, it's shite, but there is no alternative.

strictly speaking, biologically, there is nothing at all sketchy about GMO's. i work in the industry, have a post grad qualification, and the amount of propaganda, fear mongering and conspiracies surrounding this subject is crazy.

Rishan - 03 February 2012 07:28 PM

it's not just monsanto though, everyone does this - bayer, johnsons, british seed houses, syngenta, barenbrug. if we are going to get into this argument, might as well talk about the ethics of the clothes on our backs and where our laptop components are made etc. it's just how the world works, it's shite, but there is no alternative

Dude, come on. Just because other companies do it, doesn't make it anymore acceptable. If we regularly adopt the attitude "well that's the way it is" or "that's how the world works" than why not just say f*ck it and let it all go to waste. The false equivalency between clothing & Monsanto crops & practices is quite a stretch. However overblown the hype or 'propaganda' may be about gmo's, there are certain consequences pertaining to these crops & the shady practices surrounding their use that put all of our food supply & health at risk. The huge drop in bee populations in North America, may very well be linked to or at least partially caused by some of these crops. Don't forget Monsanto produces pesticides. You should look in to some of the shit they do to farmers & some of the devastation their products have caused; there are several docs out there.

ost - 04 February 2012 05:36 AM

Dude, come on. Just because other companies do it, doesn't make it anymore acceptable. If we regularly adopt the attitude "well that's the way it is" or "that's how the world works" than why not just say f*ck it and let it all go to waste. The false equivalency between clothing & Monsanto crops & practices is quite a stretch. However overblown the hype or 'propaganda' may be about gmo's, there are certain consequences pertaining to these crops & the shady practices surrounding their use that put all of our food supply & health at risk. The huge drop in bee populations in North America, may very well be linked to or at least partially caused by some of these crops. Don't forget Monsanto produces pesticides. You should look in to some of the shit they do to farmers & some of the devastation their products have caused; there are several docs out there.

rubbish. i watched one of those documentaries just before xmas and used to read the conspiracy websites years ago. i'm not at all defending monsanto, but if we are talking about ethics it is all exactly the same. 'fuck it and let it all go to waste' is exactly what is happening. i would love to live in a world without capitalism and bent government in the pockets of exploiting multi national corporations but it's not going to happen.

putting monsanto completely to one side, i don't believe anyone here is well informed enough to talk like they are about GMO's. same goes for pesticides which i am trained to use and lecture on.

and pesticides belong to many different groups of chemicals and hormones that do vastly different things. the advances being made means they are nothing like they used to be in the 60's and 70's etc. all of those have been rightly banned. legislation is heavy as fuck over here in europe. several countries are not even allowed to spray them at all. the bee population thing is very concerning and research has been going on for years into safer, more selective and controlled pesticides, direct action use.

Rishan - 04 February 2012 08:09 AM

ost - 04 February 2012 05:36 AM

Dude, come on. Just because other companies do it, doesn't make it anymore acceptable. If we regularly adopt the attitude "well that's the way it is" or "that's how the world works" than why not just say f*ck it and let it all go to waste. The false equivalency between clothing & Monsanto crops & practices is quite a stretch. However overblown the hype or 'propaganda' may be about gmo's, there are certain consequences pertaining to these crops & the shady practices surrounding their use that put all of our food supply & health at risk. The huge drop in bee populations in North America, may very well be linked to or at least partially caused by some of these crops. Don't forget Monsanto produces pesticides. You should look in to some of the shit they do to farmers & some of the devastation their products have caused; there are several docs out there.

rubbish. i watched one of those documentaries just before xmas and used to read the conspiracy websites years ago. i'm not at all defending monsanto, but if we are talking about ethics it is all exactly the same. 'fuck it and let it all go to waste' is exactly what is happening. i would love to live in a world without capitalism and bent government in the pockets of exploiting multi national corporations but it's not going to happen.

putting monsanto completely to one side, i don't believe anyone here is well informed enough to talk like they are about GMO's. same goes for pesticides which i am trained to use and lecture on.

and pesticides belong to many different groups of chemicals and hormones that do vastly different things. the advances being made means they are nothing like they used to be in the 60's and 70's etc. all of those have been rightly banned. legislation is heavy as fuck over here in europe. several countries are not even allowed to spray them at all. the bee population thing is very concerning and research has been going on for years into safer, more selective and controlled pesticides, direct action use.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" (Upton Sinclair)

Legislation is heavy because they've already seen the damage that it can do. They've already degraded soils & polluted our environments from the seeping of said pesticides into the aquifers for instance. They don't get to have the benefit of the doubt anymore.

rubbish. i watched one of those documentaries just before xmas and used to read the conspiracy websites years ago. i'm not at all defending monsanto

Really? So you're just a reactionary in general?

You watched "one of those documentaries" but can't be bothered to say which one or respond to it but you've helpfully added that it was just before xmas that you saw it. I see how this works.

putting monsanto completely to one side, i don't believe anyone here is well informed enough to talk like they are about GMO's. same goes for pesticides which i am trained to use and lecture on.

You tout your credentials in the vaguest way possible and cite no facts or statistics. I guess we should all just shut up and listen to you.

I often wonder, how many of you condescending scientificial types would be ok with standing in a field as you were showered with your own pesticides? I mean, does it take an advanced degree to think this? Or does having thoughts like this preclude one from going into your line of work?

I'll grant that the GMO scare is largely that, a scare. The people who feel that combining two types of fruit may cause cancer in the long term are probably wrong. People focus on GMOs rather than toxics because it's relatively easier to localize one's thinking around the idea of genetically tampering with things that evolved over millions of years than it is to consider what it means to live on poisoned food, breathe heavy metals, and so on and so forth.

And I'll grant that it appears that while the Terminator patent was purchased by Monsanto, they have not deployed it, bless their hearts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto#Terminator_seed_controversy
http://www.monsanto.com/newsviews/Pages/terminator-seeds.aspx

None of which is to say that defending Monsanto, which is exactly what you just did, repeatedly, isn't the very definition of NAGL.

Rishan - 03 February 2012 07:28 PM

i work in the industry, have a post grad qualification

Sorry but if you are indeed a scientist then you understand the very rudimentary concept of biodiversity and thus how GMO's and reducing crop types are an hindrance to this?
Why do I walk into most large grocery stores and see only 1 type of cucumber, 2 types of tomato? An old post war industry that now propagates only one seed type, not good. We have lost so many crop types in such a short time because of these big businesses. There's nothing to believe in or not vis a vis conspiracy, these aren't speculations they are facts.

http://www.jlhudsonseeds.net/

I study God and work for Him too. That makes me like an angel. And since none of you can even fly, woooooooosh!

lol @ Rishan.

seeds that can only be harvested one season, created by a corporation, in a lab, with the specific purpose of rendering farmers dependent and increasing profits = genetic mutations that occur naturally over the course of 1,000,000 years.

guys, it's just a difference in scale; it's essentially the same thing!

rootlesscosmo - 04 February 2012 07:00 PM

lol @ Rishan.

Deegreez - 04 February 2012 05:00 PM

Rishan - 03 February 2012 07:28 PM

i work in the industry, have a post grad qualification

Sorry but if you are indeed a scientist then you understand the very rudimentary concept of biodiversity and thus how GMO's and reducing crop types are an hindrance to this?
Why do I walk into most large grocery stores and see only 1 type of cucumber, 2 types of tomato? An old post war industry that now propagates only one seed type, not good. We have lost so many crop types in such a short time because of these big businesses. There's nothing to believe in or not vis a vis conspiracy, these aren't speculations they are facts.

Not to mention, the terminator gene was developed as yet another way to further commodify the production process of food. Forget farmers with their heritage seed strains that have been developed over decades and were bred to weather both the climate and insects of their local area. Now, the same seed gets sold to farmers everywhere, whether in Saskatchewan or California, every year. All these corporations are selling more seeds than ever before, and since these new seeds are more susceptible to local pests, they are selling more of their pesticides.

rootlesscosmo - 04 February 2012 07:00 PM

lol @ Rishan.

seeds that can only be harvested one season, created by a corporation, in a lab, with the specific purpose of rendering farmers dependent and increasing profits = genetic mutations that occur naturally over the course of 1,000,000 years.

guys, it's just a difference in scale; it's essentially the same thing!

what are we going to do when the last pesticide is banned and we can't hardly grow any good quality crops because foreign species have invaded and 'organics' are too susceptible to disease? do you all know the half-life of every chemical and it's activity in the soil? thought not. we are not in the days of vietman/agent orange anymore.

i am simply defending GMO's and pesticides, not saying it is the only road we should go down.

Rishan - 05 February 2012 07:53 AM

do you all know the half-life of every chemical and it's activity in the soil? thought not.

Whatever you think you know may not be true. Case in point: the half-life of Cesium 137 around Chernobyl is expected to remain in the soil much much longer than anticipated.
In the context of this argument you are biased because your salary depends either fully or in part by your spreading information & possibly 'misinformation' (knowingly or not) about this topic.

white_tea - 02 February 2012 04:37 PM

there's not enough food in the world to feed everyone without them.

Not true.

The so called first world is doing everything they can to produce more and more quantity of lower and lower quality and flooding the world market with this shit. This ensures to keep any farming efforts in the third world from being able to compete on the market and keeps them producing stuff like chocolate and coffee which for the most part, we can't grow ourselves or at least not as cheaply as where there is still slave- and child labor. Then we send relief organizations over there who distribute foodstuff that these organizations buy as excess product from evil corporations. This keeps the third world dependent and fucked up and us as "rich" as possible.

ost - 05 February 2012 03:21 PM

[Whatever you think you know may not be true. Case in point: the half-life of Celsium 137 around Chernobyl is expected to remain in the soil much much longer than expected.
In the context of this argument you are biased because your salary depends either fully or in part by your spreading information & possibly 'misinformation' about this topic.

oh behave ost!!! i work for a public educational institution and a world governing body of an extremely popular global sport. i'd rather not say who i work for, but it's nothing like what you just suggested. i'm not trying to be condescending as i've been accused of, just stating my position of being surrounded by a certain type of plant breeding, trials and pesticide research. i have no vested interest and i'm not reliant on selling anything.

Rishan - 05 February 2012 07:53 AM

i am simply defending GMO's and pesticides

quote of the year.

"hey guys, I'm just over here defending Monsanto; c'mon -- give a guy a break!!!" *shrugs*

rootlesscosmo, i think you need to go and read this thread again. you are trying to argue from a position of incredulity. 'i don't understand how it works so i'm not going to believe it'. at least admit to the possibility that you may be wrong. that gmo's and pesticides are not the harbingers of doom that you claim. and stop putting words in my mouth. last time i checked it wasn't a crime to give an informed opinion on a legitimate field of scientific research. hardly indefensible is it? i'm off to bed. have to get up early tomorrow and destroy some more biodiversity while making people take deadly chemical showers. rolly eyes.....

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