the3rdstream
Mike Henderson's Thong
Reged: Oct 31 2003
Posts: 4893
Loc: the library
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Re: WARNING WARNING - JOSH DAVIS NAZI GERMANY THRE
Quote:
same to you
Don't you ahve some books to go reshelve?
it took you like 20 minutes to modify your post for that...?
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Vitamin
Medium Raer
Reged: Nov 04 2003
Posts: 1275
Loc: on the inside
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Re: WARNING WARNING - JOSH DAVIS NAZI GERMANY THRE
From the Weekly Standard
Do-It-Yourself Regime Change
It worked in Serbia. Could it work in Iraq?
by Eli J. Lake
11/11/2002, Volume 008, Issue 09
ON OCTOBER 20, Saddam Hussein blinked. In the face of an American president's resolve to disarm him, the Iraqi dictator opened the gates of his jails and freed his nation's thieves, rapists, and murderers. (Exempted from his amnesty were prisoners deemed American or Zionist spies.)
Two days later, a crowd of 200 people, most of them women, stormed the Ministry of Information in Baghdad demanding to know the whereabouts of relatives who had not been released. The same day, a larger crowd with similar questions pressed officials at a secret police detention center outside the city. On October 29, thousands of families in Erbil, a city in the north managed largely by the Kurdistan Democratic party, demonstrated in front of the United Nations mission to publicize the plight of their missing kin.
For a man who has survived his army's defeat in Kuwait, the uprisings and international sanctions that followed, and a series of attempted coups and rebellions in the last decade, Saddam Hussein seems to have made an uncharacteristic mistake on October 20. The tyrant's act of mercy may have emboldened his subjects.
As Kanan Makiya, author of "Republic of Fear," a history of the Iraqi Baath party, said Wednesday, Saddam's amnesty decree "suggests the first cracks are appearing in the authority of the regime. This is a hint of things to come. It is a hint of how easy this war is going to be" to win. Some Saddam watchers in the U.S. government concur. "These demonstrations show there is increasing pressure on the regime at the grass-roots level," one U.S. official said Wednesday.
There are some outside the government who believe last month's demonstrations may actually be key to toppling the Iraqi regime. About a month before the demonstrations in Baghdad, Peter Ackerman, a former investment banker and the founder of the International Center for Nonviolent Conflict, held a one-day seminar with 50 Iraqi exiles in the Netherlands to discuss how grass-roots anger can be used to bring Saddam's government down.
Ackerman has experience with this sort of thing. He conducted similar training seminars for Otpor, the student movement in Serbia that helped end the reign of Slobodan Milosevic. A proponent of regime change in Iraq who does not oppose the use of military force to secure that end, Ackerman believes that Iraq may be ripe for revolution without an American shot being fired. "These mothers who congregated are as much of a threat to Saddam as the mothers of the disappeared were in Argentina," he says.
At the recent seminar, Ackerman showed a video he produced entitled "Bringing Down a Dictator." It chronicles the opposition movement in Serbia and shows how the Otpor campaign in the spring of 2000 paved the way for the demonstrations that followed a few months later. When residents of Belgrade stormed the parliament in October, the police refused to put down the riot. Had the police and military been confronted with violent demonstrators in the spring, they would have been more hostile to the demonstrators in October, or so goes the theory, and less willing to break their ties to the government. "When you remain nonviolent," says Ackerman, "those ties wither and erode. There is a strategic purpose to nonviolent tactics."
Between 1997 and 2000, the U.S. government poured approximately $22 million in covert and public funding into political resistance movements in Serbia. No such program on anything like that scale exists for Iraq. Most of the American initiatives to topple Saddam are aimed at supporting U.S. military intervention--military training for Iraqi exiles, for example, or an effort to identify potential high-level defectors in the Iraqi army (the CIA established two field offices in northern Iraq last month largely for this purpose). But the State Department has at least played an advisory role in Ackerman's recent activities, which include three meetings with Kurds in the last year.
Shortly after the seminar in the Netherlands, the Iraqi exiles who had participated began calling their contacts in Iraq, according to one of the seminar's organizers, Ismael Zayer, who writes for the London-based Arabic newspaper al-Hayat. Zayer says that in the last month he and others have conducted small seminars in other Arab countries for the purpose of training Iraqis to organize. While conceding that the demonstrations following the release of prisoners were probably spontaneous, he confidently predicted in a phone interview Wednesday, "You will see more of these demonstrations in the future." And he added, "We do believe that the tactics of nonviolence and confrontation in Serbia can be repeated in Iraq very easily, and we are trying to go for it."
To this end, Zayer and others ran a "Say No to Saddam" campaign before the presidential "referendum" in September. The object was to persuade Iraqis to register a protest by submitting blank white pieces of paper instead of marked ballots. The outcome of the vote, according to the Iraqi government, was 100 percent in favor of the ruler, but Zayer says his contacts persuade him that several hundred thousand submitted blank protest votes.
And Saddam Hussein may be getting the message. Last week the tyrant kicked out most of the international media from his capital, a step many in the Bush administration fear may presage a crackdown. As one U.S. official said last week, "If there is another demonstration and nothing happens, then it's time to set your stopwatch. It will be inevitable the regime is going to fall."
The demonstrations in Baghdad and Erbil have placed the Iraqi government in a precarious position. The kind of massacre it would take to restore fear in his citizenry would compromise Saddam's effort to charm the international community on the eve of a new vote in the U.N. Security Council. The international community has ignored Saddam's cruelties before--but this time, it might see them as justifying the overthrow of his regime.
Eli J. Lake covers the State Department for United Press International.
Edited by Vitamin (Mon Jun 27 2005 05:19 PM)
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33thirdcom
Endless Flyer
Reged: Mar 11 2004
Posts: 3546
Loc: Then I sidle over to her section of the dance floor and circle like a shark, waiting for the right moment to strike.
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Re: WARNING WARNING - JOSH DAVIS NAZI GERMANY THRE
Quote:
Quote:
same to you
Don't you ahve some books to go reshelve?
it took you like 20 minutes to modify your post for that...?
yeh sorry some of us have jobs... real world moves... you should try it.
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Fatback
Boscoe or Death
Reged: Nov 04 2003
Posts: 9393
Loc: That black guy better be kidding Emily.
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Re: WARNING WARNING - JOSH DAVIS NAZI GERMANY THRE
Quote:
From a Weak Standard
Ok, Really: This is Do-It-Yourself Regime Change
by Eli J. Lake
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the3rdstream
Mike Henderson's Thong
Reged: Oct 31 2003
Posts: 4893
Loc: the library
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Re: WARNING WARNING - JOSH DAVIS NAZI GERMANY THRE
Quote:
yeh sorry some of us have jobs... real world moves... you should try it.
by real world moves, do you mean you sold a record this week?
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BigSpliff
Endless Flyer
Reged: Feb 07 2005
Posts: 3534
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Re: WARNING WARNING - JOSH DAVIS NAZI GERMANY THRE
Quote:
From the Weekly Standard ... Eli J. Lake covers the State Department for United Press International.
Delusions of grandeur. Weekly Standard, gimme a break, you intellectual lightweight.
Now it all makes sense, you need the right wing lie machine in order to have any sort of professional prospects. That my friend is why you have a classic reactionary case of the Cognitive Dissonances.
I do a lot of work for serious academic publishers often in the field of political science, I must remember to look out for your name in future edited volumes. Then again...
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Fatback
Boscoe or Death
Reged: Nov 04 2003
Posts: 9393
Loc: That black guy better be kidding Emily.
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Re: WARNING WARNING - JOSH DAVIS NAZI GERMANY THRE
yeah, it's a mark of true scholarship when you already know the answers and you can simply collect up some the questions to fit.
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SoulOnIce
Legendary Up in Here
Reged: Mar 07 2005
Posts: 14067
Loc: Lair of the Minotaur
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Re: WARNING WARNING - JOSH DAVIS NAZI GERMANY THREAD
um I just read this whole thread, and it was pretty good, didn't mind spending an hour of my life doing it, even read all the linked articles and everything...but, um...just curious...where the f*ck is the JOSH DAVIS NAZI GERMANY THREAD? I only saw a joined-in-progress argument on US foreign policy.

If key things were deleted, could someone plaese at least summarize what I missed while out earning my paycheck? Please?
Is it still "Big Dude Day??"
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Guzzo
Legendary Up in Here
Reged: Oct 31 2003
Posts: 10395
Loc: Hooters hasnt got much of a health plan for its empolyees or else homegirl would got her eye fixed a while back...no?
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Re: WARNING WARNING - JOSH DAVIS NAZI GERMANY THREAD
Quote:
um I just read this whole thread, and it was pretty good, didn't mind spending an hour of my life doing it, even read all the linked articles and everything...but, um...just curious...where the f*ck is the JOSH DAVIS NAZI GERMANY THREAD? I only saw a joined-in-progress argument on US foreign policy.
If key things were deleted, could someone plaese at least summarize what I missed while out earning my paycheck? Please?
you missed one of the fastest moving and weirdest threads on this site in a long time. Vitamin started a post about some fucked up comment DJ shadow made calling modern day america equal to Nazi Germany. Shit was going normal until Archaic stepped in with some crazy conspiracy theory ideas. Then the shit hit the fan 2 pages became 4 pages, Vitamin cussed Jinx out, Jinx cussed Vitamin out. I admitted I was Jew Satan and we all found out that Emperor Palpatine created Hitler.
Archaic was stating something along the lines of (insert the most insane thing you can think of here)
I think it was finally killed when some dude interrupted all the arguments with a picture strip of a hemmeroid close up.
any questions?
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Vitamin
Medium Raer
Reged: Nov 04 2003
Posts: 1275
Loc: on the inside
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Re: WARNING WARNING - JOSH DAVIS NAZI GERMANY THRE
Jinx cussed me out first. And I admit that I was over the top this after noon in some of my responses cause my freind in Iran was abducted and I was looking to vent. But other than that Guz pretty much nailed it.
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SoulOnIce
Legendary Up in Here
Reged: Mar 07 2005
Posts: 14067
Loc: Lair of the Minotaur
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Re: WARNING WARNING - JOSH DAVIS NAZI GERMANY THREAD
Quote:
any questions?
Yeah, are you guys hiring? This truck driving makes me miss out on all the fun.
Thanks for the re-cap, and for not re-posting the distension picture...oh, and I'd take a link to the Josh Davis Nazi quotes, his politics are very important to me.
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HAZ
Mike Henderson's Thong
Reged: Jun 15 2004
Posts: 4150
Loc: V.S.L
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Re: WARNING WARNING - JOSH DAVIS NAZI GERMANY THREAD
Quote:
Quote:
um I just read this whole thread, and it was pretty good, didn't mind spending an hour of my life doing it, even read all the linked articles and everything...but, um...just curious...where the f*ck is the JOSH DAVIS NAZI GERMANY THREAD? I only saw a joined-in-progress argument on US foreign policy.

If key things were deleted, could someone plaese at least summarize what I missed while out earning my paycheck? Please?
Shit was going normal until Archaic stepped in with some crazy conspiracy theory ideas.

(Apologies for my lack of microsoft paint skills)
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mylatency
Legendary Up in Here
Reged: Oct 31 2003
Posts: 14547
Loc: sigh
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Re: WARNING WARNING - JOSH DAVIS NAZI GERMANY THRE
no apology needed, I glad finally learned the truth that
BUSH BIT THE BLOWED!!!!!!!
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99Problems
Why Must I Cry
Reged: May 25 2004
Posts: 2579
Loc: how ancient can you get?
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Re: WARNING WARNING - JOSH DAVIS NAZI GERMANY THREAD
Quote:
I think it was finally killed when some dude interrupted all the arguments with a picture strip of a hemmeroid close up.
Dude went by the name of Malt Disney.
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jinx74
Hot Schitt
Reged: Nov 03 2003
Posts: 6211
Loc: Have any Bay Area Soul/Funk for sale? Send me a PM. Thanks!
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Re: WARNING WARNING - JOSH DAVIS NAZI GERMANY THRE
Quote:
Jinx cussed me out first. And I admit that I was over the top this after noon in some of my responses cause my freind in Iran was abducted and I was looking to vent.
damn straight i cussed you out first...
and youre looking to vent cause your friend got abducted... thats a fucking shame... it is and i mean that... my friend paul came home without his left leg and missing three fingers on his left hand due to an explosion... a motherly figure to my ex girl julie died out over there while trying to help out the people. a lot of us think she was pushed off the side of a cliff but the police out there ruled it as an accident...
a lot of us are feeling that pain vitavituhvegemin...
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