I think the lawsuit was mentioned somewhere in DJ Sheeps' Syl Johnson post a while back - glad to see Syl got paid. I wonder how much they settled for?
Pitchfork article
Pitchfork article
Jay-Z and Kanye Settle with Syl over The Joy
- Thread starter staxwax
- Start date
I'm trying to remember what he said about it in Sheep's article, but the impression I got from the TMZ piece was that what happened was they tried to clear the use for MBDTF and missed the deadline, so they decided to use it on Watch The Throne instead. What seems to have taken place is a breach of the conditions of approval, which is a bit naughty. If they decided that they weren't going to leave it in the vault but were going to use it on an entirely different album, then they should have politely asked Syl & his people if they'd be willing to approve it on the same terms. It seems Jay & Kanye assumed that an approval's an approval, so they didn't need to ask a second time. I guess that if you wanted to play hardball over the matter, you could interpret that as an unauthorised use, but most definitions of the term would involve cases where approval hasn't been sought at all (and it appears as though it was), or when approval wasn't granted, and the users pressed ahead with it anyway.
Let's assume for argument's sake that Syl was cool with the sample for the Kanye record. Any advances due to him would have been structured based on projected sales of that album. If a decision was made without Syl's approval to include it on an entirely different album where the projected sales (and, by extension, advances for samples, etc) were higher, then it's not unreasonable for him to think somebody's trying to pull a fast one. But I bet the reason they've settled is because if Syl had already granted approval and perhaps even issued a license, it becomes an issue of compensation for the breach of the original terms, rather than an entirely new infringement case. So they break him off a nice chunk of cash, everyone shakes hands and the world keeps turnin'...
Let's assume for argument's sake that Syl was cool with the sample for the Kanye record. Any advances due to him would have been structured based on projected sales of that album. If a decision was made without Syl's approval to include it on an entirely different album where the projected sales (and, by extension, advances for samples, etc) were higher, then it's not unreasonable for him to think somebody's trying to pull a fast one. But I bet the reason they've settled is because if Syl had already granted approval and perhaps even issued a license, it becomes an issue of compensation for the breach of the original terms, rather than an entirely new infringement case. So they break him off a nice chunk of cash, everyone shakes hands and the world keeps turnin'...
DocMcCoy said:I'm trying to remember what he said about it in Sheep's article, but the impression I got from the TMZ piece was that what happened was they tried to clear the use for MBDTF and missed the deadline, so they decided to use it on Watch The Throne instead. What seems to have taken place is a breach of the conditions of approval, which is a bit naughty. If they decided that they weren't going to leave it in the vault but were going to use it on an entirely different album, then they should have politely asked Syl & his people if they'd be willing to approve it on the same terms. It seems Jay & Kanye assumed that an approval's an approval, so they didn't need to ask a second time. I guess that if you wanted to play hardball over the matter, you could interpret that as an unauthorised use, but most definitions of the term would involve cases where approval hasn't been sought at all (and it appears as though it was), or when approval wasn't granted, and the users pressed ahead with it anyway.
Let's assume for argument's sake that Syl was cool with the sample for the Kanye record. Any advances due to him would have been structured based on projected sales of that album. If a decision was made without Syl's approval to include it on an entirely different album where the projected sales (and, by extension, advances for samples, etc) were higher, then it's not unreasonable for him to think somebody's trying to pull a fast one. But I bet the reason they've settled is because if Syl had already granted approval and perhaps even issued a license, it becomes an issue of compensation for the breach of the original terms, rather than an entirely new infringement case. So they break him off a nice chunk of cash, everyone shakes hands and the world keeps turnin'...
Let's assume for argument's sake that Syl was cool with the sample for the Kanye record. Any advances due to him would have been structured based on projected sales of that album. If a decision was made without Syl's approval to include it on an entirely different album where the projected sales (and, by extension, advances for samples, etc) were higher, then it's not unreasonable for him to think somebody's trying to pull a fast one. But I bet the reason they've settled is because if Syl had already granted approval and perhaps even issued a license, it becomes an issue of compensation for the breach of the original terms, rather than an entirely new infringement case. So they break him off a nice chunk of cash, everyone shakes hands and the world keeps turnin'...
One of the more memorable moments of my interview with Syl is when he was talking salty about Sly Stone, basically accusing him of 1) ripping off his name and 2) ripping off "Different Strokes" (for "Everyday People") and then saying, "how ya like me now?" and bragging that "Different Strokes" made it onto "Watch the Throne." I'm not sure if that sample really puts him "even" with Sly Stone but somewhere, Curtis Mayfield's spirt is mad.
mannybolone said:One of the more memorable moments of my interview with Syl is when he was talking salty about Sly Stone, basically accusing him of 1) ripping off his name and 2) ripping off "Different Strokes" (for "Everyday People") and then saying, "how ya like me now?" and bragging that "Different Strokes" made it onto "Watch the Throne."
whoa
whoa
It's funny that he would brag about 'making it on to watch the throne' - with the expected payment involved being the obvious point of bragging.
I'd be interested to find out which recording artist having been sampled and rediscovered through Hip Hop made the most money off the fact that they were sampled. Probably down to how good their representation was. Was it James that cashed the most? Or someone else, more unexpected? Does anyone know or have an idea about that?
I'd be interested to find out which recording artist having been sampled and rediscovered through Hip Hop made the most money off the fact that they were sampled. Probably down to how good their representation was. Was it James that cashed the most? Or someone else, more unexpected? Does anyone know or have an idea about that?
staxwax said:It's funny that he would brag about 'making it on to watch the throne' - with the expected payment involved being the obvious point of bragging.
That's not the impression I got. I think it was more that he was saying "my song has had a longer shelf life". I personally think that's a stretch; the prominent sample on that song isn't Syl but Curtis but hey, if it makes Syl happy, I'm hardly one to begrudge him that. I do think it's questionable whether or not he gets to claim "Different Strokes" as a catchphrase when, if I'm not mistaken, Muhammed Ali was the first to coin it. It may be that Sly and the Family Stone were inspired to work the phrase into their own song but "Everyday People" shares little in common with "Different Strokes" besides a single line. As Sly could have joked, "he made it a hot line, I made it a hot song" (except, of course, "Different Strokes" is a pretty hot song too).
That's not the impression I got. I think it was more that he was saying "my song has had a longer shelf life". I personally think that's a stretch; the prominent sample on that song isn't Syl but Curtis but hey, if it makes Syl happy, I'm hardly one to begrudge him that. I do think it's questionable whether or not he gets to claim "Different Strokes" as a catchphrase when, if I'm not mistaken, Muhammed Ali was the first to coin it. It may be that Sly and the Family Stone were inspired to work the phrase into their own song but "Everyday People" shares little in common with "Different Strokes" besides a single line. As Sly could have joked, "he made it a hot line, I made it a hot song" (except, of course, "Different Strokes" is a pretty hot song too).
staxwax said:I'd be interested to find out which recording artist having been sampled and rediscovered through Hip Hop made the most money off the fact that they were sampled.
Lord Tariq and Peter Gunz use of the Steely Dan sample for Deja Vu was put in the paper for over $100 Grand. But my friend who works for Sony told me they had to pay a million for the uncleared sample.
Lord Tariq and Peter Gunz use of the Steely Dan sample for Deja Vu was put in the paper for over $100 Grand. But my friend who works for Sony told me they had to pay a million for the uncleared sample.
DOR said:staxwax said:I'd be interested to find out which recording artist having been sampled and rediscovered through Hip Hop made the most money off the fact that they were sampled.
Lord Tariq and Peter Gunz use of the Steely Dan sample for Deja Vu was put in the paper for over $100 Grand. But my friend who works for Sony told me they had to pay a million for the uncleared sample.
Fagen and Becker gets down, baby! For the crown, baby!
Lord Tariq and Peter Gunz use of the Steely Dan sample for Deja Vu was put in the paper for over $100 Grand. But my friend who works for Sony told me they had to pay a million for the uncleared sample.
Fagen and Becker gets down, baby! For the crown, baby!
Anybody else wonder why they didn't get Pete to come back into the studio and have him say Jay-z's name a few times. It's so awkward how it's obviously a kanye song that Jay jumped on after the fact.
mannybolone said:I do think it's questionable whether or not he gets to claim "Different Strokes" as a catchphrase
"ALL SAMPLES CLEARED, BABY"
"ALL SAMPLES CLEARED, BABY"
DOR said:staxwax said:I'd be interested to find out which recording artist having been sampled and rediscovered through Hip Hop made the most money off the fact that they were sampled.
Lord Tariq and Peter Gunz use of the Steely Dan sample for Deja Vu was put in the paper for over $100 Grand. But my friend who works for Sony told me they had to pay a million for the uncleared sample.
Damn. does that make it the most expensive single sample usage ever? Steely Dan have gone on record stating thier disdain for sample based music. But what I really meant was - which artist do you think had the highest total earnings from being sampled?
Has to be James Brown, rigjht? Worth his weight in gold related?
Lord Tariq and Peter Gunz use of the Steely Dan sample for Deja Vu was put in the paper for over $100 Grand. But my friend who works for Sony told me they had to pay a million for the uncleared sample.
Damn. does that make it the most expensive single sample usage ever? Steely Dan have gone on record stating thier disdain for sample based music. But what I really meant was - which artist do you think had the highest total earnings from being sampled?
Has to be James Brown, rigjht? Worth his weight in gold related?
DocMcCoy said:I'm trying to remember what he said about it in Sheep's article, but the impression I got from the TMZ piece was that what happened was they tried to clear the use for MBDTF and missed the deadline, so they decided to use it on Watch The Throne instead. What seems to have taken place is a breach of the conditions of approval, which is a bit naughty. If they decided that they weren't going to leave it in the vault but were going to use it on an entirely different album, then they should have politely asked Syl & his people if they'd be willing to approve it on the same terms. It seems Jay & Kanye assumed that an approval's an approval, so they didn't need to ask a second time. I guess that if you wanted to play hardball over the matter, you could interpret that as an unauthorised use, but most definitions of the term would involve cases where approval hasn't been sought at all (and it appears as though it was), or when approval wasn't granted, and the users pressed ahead with it anyway.
Let's assume for argument's sake that Syl was cool with the sample for the Kanye record. Any advances due to him would have been structured based on projected sales of that album. If a decision was made without Syl's approval to include it on an entirely different album where the projected sales (and, by extension, advances for samples, etc) were higher, then it's not unreasonable for him to think somebody's trying to pull a fast one. But I bet the reason they've settled is because if Syl had already granted approval and perhaps even issued a license, it becomes an issue of compensation for the breach of the original terms, rather than an entirely new infringement case. So they break him off a nice chunk of cash, everyone shakes hands and the world keeps turnin'...
P**l, I'm wild tardy on responding to our PM convo, but just saw this and immediately thought of your post here.
http://allhiphop.com/2012/03/31/exclusive-kanye-hit-with-500000-lawsuit-over-sample/
what the article seems to be saying is that representatives of the Persuaders are suing Kanye for a mixtape usage of the "Girls Girls Girls (Remix)" beat that he produced for Jay-Z's Blueprint. The album usage was cleared.
We are really entering crazyland if artists are going to start suing rappers over free mixtape fodder, or worse yet - beat-jacks of totally 100% cleared samples from platinum albums. Jesus
Let's assume for argument's sake that Syl was cool with the sample for the Kanye record. Any advances due to him would have been structured based on projected sales of that album. If a decision was made without Syl's approval to include it on an entirely different album where the projected sales (and, by extension, advances for samples, etc) were higher, then it's not unreasonable for him to think somebody's trying to pull a fast one. But I bet the reason they've settled is because if Syl had already granted approval and perhaps even issued a license, it becomes an issue of compensation for the breach of the original terms, rather than an entirely new infringement case. So they break him off a nice chunk of cash, everyone shakes hands and the world keeps turnin'...
P**l, I'm wild tardy on responding to our PM convo, but just saw this and immediately thought of your post here.
http://allhiphop.com/2012/03/31/exclusive-kanye-hit-with-500000-lawsuit-over-sample/
what the article seems to be saying is that representatives of the Persuaders are suing Kanye for a mixtape usage of the "Girls Girls Girls (Remix)" beat that he produced for Jay-Z's Blueprint. The album usage was cleared.
We are really entering crazyland if artists are going to start suing rappers over free mixtape fodder, or worse yet - beat-jacks of totally 100% cleared samples from platinum albums. Jesus
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