David Cronenberg VS. John Carpenter

[Birdman9]

batmon said:After Halloween,Escape From New York, and The Thing, what are Carpenters other CLASSICS?





Little China is = to The Thing?




Little China > The Thing





They Live, The Fog and Assault on Precinct 13 are all classics in my book, and Elvis, Christine and Dark Star are all pretty solid as far as cult classics go.

 

[staxwax]

batmon said:what fux w/ Escape From New York?




Nothing.

 

[batmon]

I cant place The Fog as a classic. Good - yes. Classic - I cant place it w/ Halloween.

 

[Junior]

Birdman9 said:batmon said:After Halloween,Escape From New York, and The Thing, what are Carpenters other CLASSICS?





Little China is = to The Thing?




Little China > The Thing





They Live, The Fog and Assault on Precinct 13 are all classics in my book, and Elvis, Christine and Dark Star are all pretty solid as far as cult classics go.




While I can't agree with Little China > The Thing I do think it's a great great film. In a list of great films would definitely put Assault up there, Dark Star and They Live and would also add Prince of Darkness which, while uneven, is an absolutely masterful exercise in building up a feeling of dread and expectation which has been unfairly overlooked.


The Fog has some great bits but doesn't quite gel together as well as his best films.





Absolute classics though would probably be limited to Batmon's three and Assault.

 

[DustedDon]

No one has mentioned "In the Mouth of Madness" certainly one of Carpenters better if not slept on films....

 

[dwyhajlo]

batmon said:After Halloween,Escape From New York, and The Thing, what are Carpenters other CLASSICS?





Little China is = to The Thing?




I'd actually rate Big Trouble in Little China above The Thing. I think that the former takes on a whole new level of greatness when you realize that the main character, through whom we see most of the movie, is not actually the great white superhero action star he thinks he is. Jack Burton is Wang's sidekick and I think it's pretty awesome in the way it subtly (well, maybe) subverts the conventions of the genre. Not to mention that the action sequences and setpieces are pretty awesome.





Ulysses31nicholas said:dwyhajlo said: The Internet has made it easier to get access to a lot of this stuff, but there's still a lot of digging that needs to be done. 2010 does seem like it's been a particularly dry year.




go on then, allow me to call your bluff since you clearly know your onions. what has been good. what has been overlooked. what can you recommend




Is there anything in particular you're interested in? I really liked:





-Kairo still doesn't have a lot of recognition, especially considering that it's pretty much the best of the new crop of Japanese horror movies from the last decade. Most of Kiyoshi Kurosawa's other work is worth seeing also.


-Tsai Ming-Liang's The Hole and Joe Dante's The Hole are both good, even though they have nothing to do with each other.


-Sci fi: Moon and Primer are both great, and have gotten a few plaudits, but not enough in my estimation.


-Honestly, I don't think Speed Racer has gotten proper due, yet. Yes, I know it was a massive "Hollywood" movie, but what they did (visually) is pretty groundbreaking. The fact that someone actually made a live action anime is kind of mind-blowing if you think about it. I think that it could possibly set some future trends in film-making, if anyone can get a hold of enough money.


-District B13 is kind of awesome. Stupid, but kind of awesome nonetheless.


-La Pianiste/The Piano Teacher doesn't seem to be as well known as Cache, but it's a lot better in my estimation.


-I don't think I've heard anyone talk about Shotgun Stories, ever. It's a "small" movie that's kind of flawed, but it's still really solid.


-In terms of stuff that's a bit older, but I'm not sure if it's attained cult status yet: Tampopo, A Zed and Two Noughts, La Jetee (on Criterion, though), etc.





I can post up more when I get home and can think a bit more clearly.

 

[dwyhajlo]

I think that The Fog is pretty good right through the first act and part of the second, but it kind of goes downhill once things actually start happening. The idea of the lighthouse radio station was really awesome to me, for some reason.

 

[bassie]

Oh, I thought we were talking hidden treasures of Carpenter and Cronenberg...but if it's about newer films of note, I would say anything by Haneke actually (save for the American Funny Games). I think The Piano Teacher is amazing, but the original Funny Games is more and more my favourite by him.





I speak about them a lot here, The Dardenne Brothers are amazing filmmakers.





Though not sci-fi or fantasy, it definitely had an otherworldy atmosphere - Lucile Hadzihalilovic's Innocence is a favourite of the recent past.





Jacques Audiard'S A Prophet





Shirin Neshat's Women Without Men





Catherine Breillat's films - not that they are all good - though Fat Girl is great - but they are worth seeing for the experience alone. Don't bother if you are squeamish about women's bodies, female sexuality...or sex in general lol

 

[ketan]

Some newer films that have impressed me:





The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus


The Ghost Writer


Winter's Bone


The Wild Hunt





How does Lorna's Silence stack up, Bassie? Haven't caught that yet. I also liked A Prophet.

 

[DocMcCoy]

dwyhajlo saidocMcCoy said:Speaking of Brian Yuzna, I haven't seen Society for a good few years now, but there's a "body-horror" classic if ever there was one. It completely blew my mind when I happened to catch it on TV one Sunday night during the mid-90s, having no knowledge of it, nor any idea of what it was about. It draws you in in the kind of way that seems like too much effort for many filmmakers these days.




Yeah, Society is another good one. I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at with that last sentence though - care to explicate? I mean I find that there's still a lot of good stuff being made all over that's really engrossing. Kiyoshi Kurosawa (whose Cure and Kairo are probably good points of comparison with Cronenberg, heh) is a good example of someone who's pushing boundaries in really subtle ways, while still creating well-crafted films.





I still maintain - perhaps out of naive optimism - that there's a lot of great moviemaking going on, that most people probably don't hear about until after they've become certifiably "cult". The Internet has made it easier to get access to a lot of this stuff, but there's still a lot of digging that needs to be done. 2010 does seem like it's been a particularly dry year.




I was alluding to how it doesn't show its hand too early, and you're not quite sure what kind of movie you're actually watching - teen melodrama? quirky thriller? - until quite a way into it, and that end sequence is just ridiculous. Non-mainstream horror will often follow a similar path, I find, but the regular variety, especially post-Scream, is a little too quick to tick all the boxes and is less likely to throw the viewer a curveball.

 

[bassie]

So Winter's Bone is good? I will go to it then. How about The Secret in Their Eyes? Great reviews, but I've yet to speak to anyone who has seen it.





Lorna's Silence is terrific. Different for them in a couple of ways but I watch a film like that and am reminded how few good female roles/characters there are still.


EDIT - Because how good they are in their films, not bad!

 

[ketan]

RE: Winter's Bone, I found the pacing kind of odd...but apart from that, I really enjoyed it...story...characters...setting - all a breath of fresh air. I kind of wonder how exploitative it is of the culture in the Ozarks.

 

[HarveyCanal]

If Carpenter himself did actually produce the soundtrack to the og Assault on Precinct 13, then him by a bloody mile.

 

[DocMcCoy]

HarveyCanal said:If Carpenter himself did actually produce the soundtrack to the og Assault on Precinct 13, then him by a bloody mile.




Yeah, he did the music for almost all his movies (if not all of them), sometimes in collaboration with Alan Howarth. The score they did for Escape From New York is probably my favourite of his.

 

[dwyhajlo]

bassie said:Oh, I thought we were talking hidden treasures of Carpenter and Cronenberg...but if it's about newer films of note, I would say anything by Haneke actually (save for the American Funny Games). I think The Piano Teacher is amazing, but the original Funny Games is more and more my favourite by him.




The first Haneke I saw was Cache and I was just incredibly bored with it. The others that I've seen are quite good, though.

Catherine Breillat's films - not that they are all good - though Fat Girl is great - but they are worth seeing for the experience alone. Don't bother if you are squeamish about women's bodies, female sexuality...or sex in general lol

Breillat has a pretty high barrier to entry. And yeah, that ending in Fat Girl is definitely one of the most notorious in recent memory.





Also on the French tip, La Ceremonie is another somewhat recent favorite.

 

[dwyhajlo]

DocMcCoy said:dwyhajlo saidocMcCoy said:Speaking of Brian Yuzna, I haven't seen Society for a good few years now, but there's a "body-horror" classic if ever there was one. It completely blew my mind when I happened to catch it on TV one Sunday night during the mid-90s, having no knowledge of it, nor any idea of what it was about. It draws you in in the kind of way that seems like too much effort for many filmmakers these days.




Yeah, Society is another good one. I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at with that last sentence though - care to explicate? I mean I find that there's still a lot of good stuff being made all over that's really engrossing. Kiyoshi Kurosawa (whose Cure and Kairo are probably good points of comparison with Cronenberg, heh) is a good example of someone who's pushing boundaries in really subtle ways, while still creating well-crafted films.





I still maintain - perhaps out of naive optimism - that there's a lot of great moviemaking going on, that most people probably don't hear about until after they've become certifiably "cult". The Internet has made it easier to get access to a lot of this stuff, but there's still a lot of digging that needs to be done. 2010 does seem like it's been a particularly dry year.




I was alluding to how it doesn't show its hand too early, and you're not quite sure what kind of movie you're actually watching - teen melodrama? quirky thriller? - until quite a way into it, and that end sequence is just ridiculous. Non-mainstream horror will often follow a similar path, I find, but the regular variety, especially post-Scream, is a little too quick to tick all the boxes and is less likely to throw the viewer a curveball.




Ah, I see what you mean. By my understanding, Korean (horror) movies tend to be careful about avoiding genre conventions, while also mixing and matching various genres and styles. I can't exactly verify that, since I've only seen The Host and A Tale of Two Sisters, but it's something I've been meaning to explore.


I think that these "post-Scream" neo-slashers generally need to go far, far away.

 

[DOR]

dwyhajlo said:





I'd actually rate Big Trouble in Little China above The Thing. I think that the former takes on a whole new level of greatness when you realize that the main character, through whom we see most of the movie, is not actually the great white superhero action star he thinks he is. Jack Burton is Wang's sidekick and I think it's pretty awesome in the way it subtly (well, maybe) subverts the conventions of the genre. Not to mention that the action sequences and setpieces are pretty awesome.







I actually wonder how Big Trouble in Little China would have turned out if they had kept it a western as they had originally planned.





To me Big Trouble in Little China has always been a great example of a Hollywood movie that tanked almost directly due (IMO) to a major studio having zero idea how to promote a movie.

 

[Birdman9]

DOR said:dwyhajlo said:





I'd actually rate Big Trouble in Little China above The Thing. I think that the former takes on a whole new level of greatness when you realize that the main character, through whom we see most of the movie, is not actually the great white superhero action star he thinks he is. Jack Burton is Wang's sidekick and I think it's pretty awesome in the way it subtly (well, maybe) subverts the conventions of the genre. Not to mention that the action sequences and setpieces are pretty awesome.







I actually wonder how Big Trouble in Little China would have turned out if they had kept it a western as they had originally planned.





To me Big Trouble in Little China has always been a great example of a Hollywood movie that tanked almost directly due (IMO) to a major studio having zero idea how to promote a movie.




BTILC also has one of my favorite DVD commentary tracks, as does Escape from New York and The Thing. Only John Waters is more entertaining than Carpenter and Russell as far as commentary goes.

 

[ameldabee]

bassie said:So Winter's Bone is good? I will go to it then. How about The Secret in Their Eyes? Great reviews, but I've yet to speak to anyone who has seen it.





Lorna's Silence is terrific. Different for them in a couple of ways but I watch a film like that and am reminded how few good female roles/characters there are still.


EDIT - Because how good they are in their films, not bad!




Bassie, on the euro/crazy female characters' tip, you should try this (if you haven't seen it yet) ->

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0461694/





El secreto de sus ojos is okay, I expected a bit more...

 

[bassie]

Ooooh - thank you! Do you know, is it written by the same Chris Kraus who writes for Semiotexte?? I like her writing.