Odd coincidence happened today. I was listening to Pill spit over "Kick in the Door" while on the bus to work and then popped into StarBucks and heard the version of "Put a Spell On You" that Primo sampled. Flipping it from 12/8 to 4/4 and changing where the downbeats are was pretty genius IMO. Got me thinking about how much I love this kind of sampling. Plaese to add on.
Flipping the time signature
- Thread starter minneap
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minneap said:Odd coincidence happened today. I was listening to Pill spit over "Kick in the Door" while on the bus to work and then popped into StarBucks and heard the version of "Put a Spell On You" that Primo sampled. Flipping it from 12/8 to 4/4 and changing where the downbeats are was pretty genius IMO. Got me thinking about how much I love this kind of sampling. Plaese to add on.
I'd never realized how dope that is -- I got the sample, obviously, but it never occurred to me that those syncopated hits were actually just downbeats of those bars of 3. Ill shit, altho I'm not sure I have anything else to contribute ... I guess "Blue Flowers" could qualify, though of course the rhythm of the string part is so ambiguous that it's not really a straight this-to-that signature flip.
I'd never realized how dope that is -- I got the sample, obviously, but it never occurred to me that those syncopated hits were actually just downbeats of those bars of 3. Ill shit, altho I'm not sure I have anything else to contribute ... I guess "Blue Flowers" could qualify, though of course the rhythm of the string part is so ambiguous that it's not really a straight this-to-that signature flip.
smoking_robot said:Wait is the og in 12/8? I've been listenin to it and im still hearin 6/8.
I guess it could be written in either but I thought that the phrasing and backbeat implied 12/8, 4 down beats in triplets instead of eighth notes. Could be wrong though.
I guess it could be written in either but I thought that the phrasing and backbeat implied 12/8, 4 down beats in triplets instead of eighth notes. Could be wrong though.
minneap said:smoking_robot said:Wait is the og in 12/8? I've been listenin to it and im still hearin 6/8.
I guess it could be written in either but I thought that the phrasing and backbeat implied 12/8, 4 down beats in triplets instead of eighth notes. Could be wrong though.
Ahhhh, word - i was straight counting and when i started at the jump the phrases were resetting in a 6/8 to me, but that could also mean the intro is lead in.
i'll take a closer listen again and pay closer attention to the down beats and # of triplets.
this wasnt on some nitpicky dickhead shit, i was genuinely curious how you arrived at 12/8.
I guess it could be written in either but I thought that the phrasing and backbeat implied 12/8, 4 down beats in triplets instead of eighth notes. Could be wrong though.
Ahhhh, word - i was straight counting and when i started at the jump the phrases were resetting in a 6/8 to me, but that could also mean the intro is lead in.
i'll take a closer listen again and pay closer attention to the down beats and # of triplets.
this wasnt on some nitpicky dickhead shit, i was genuinely curious how you arrived at 12/8.
Possum Tom said:as much as i didn't want to be the person that posted this, i have to say it is one of the most impressive instances of a 6/8-4/4 sample.
that track really does lend itself easily to 4/4 time though, if you count it out via the piano stabs instead of the 1/8th notes. still a nice flip imo
that track really does lend itself easily to 4/4 time though, if you count it out via the piano stabs instead of the 1/8th notes. still a nice flip imo
Possum Tom said:as much as i didn't want to be the person that posted this, i have to say it is one of the most impressive instances of a 6/8-4/4 sample.
Hey,
Actually, the original sample is in 4/4 time, just played in a shuffle meter or pattern. The Esther Phillips flip is a great example of time signature switching, since the original is in 3/4 time.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Hey,
Actually, the original sample is in 4/4 time, just played in a shuffle meter or pattern. The Esther Phillips flip is a great example of time signature switching, since the original is in 3/4 time.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Possum Tom said:sorry patrick, but "shuffle" isnt a time signature. if it was in 4 and there was a fill in triplets, then yes, but the entire song is in triplets... that's 6/8. if you had to transcribe 'who knows' you would have to write it in 6/8.
Hey Tom,
Actually, you can play triplet notes in 4/4. We used to have them in our marching band drum parts all the time. By shuffle, I meant the pattern in which the notes are played. A shuffle (or swung note) rhythm can still be counted in 4s, such as in songs like "The Way You Do the Things You Do" by The Temptations.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Hey Tom,
Actually, you can play triplet notes in 4/4. We used to have them in our marching band drum parts all the time. By shuffle, I meant the pattern in which the notes are played. A shuffle (or swung note) rhythm can still be counted in 4s, such as in songs like "The Way You Do the Things You Do" by The Temptations.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Possum Tom said:thats the "8" part in 6/8, but the song's time signature is in 3s.
good thing you dont teach song writing over there
Hey Tom,
But 6/8 time is counted in 3s, not 4s. One, two, three, four, five, six...and so on would not produce the rhythm of the song I posted. That's not correct. All you need to do is count to it and you'll see. You'll find that you're 2 counts short before the end of two measures. You have to count two measures of 4/4 since you say the time signature is 6/8 versus 3/4. In 3/4 time you'd be a beat short for each measure in counting to the song posted. A shuffle pattern does not denote that a song is in 3/4 or 6/8 time (think "Build Me Up, Buttercup" as a prototype of a shuffle pattern song). I remember people making this same error in a post about time signatures a long time ago. Here is a song in the 6/8 time signature:
Now, compare it to the rhythm of the song I presented earlier:
The first one lends itself to counting 6 beats naturally versus the shuffle pattern, 4/4 song by The Temps, which does not.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
good thing you dont teach song writing over there
Hey Tom,
But 6/8 time is counted in 3s, not 4s. One, two, three, four, five, six...and so on would not produce the rhythm of the song I posted. That's not correct. All you need to do is count to it and you'll see. You'll find that you're 2 counts short before the end of two measures. You have to count two measures of 4/4 since you say the time signature is 6/8 versus 3/4. In 3/4 time you'd be a beat short for each measure in counting to the song posted. A shuffle pattern does not denote that a song is in 3/4 or 6/8 time (think "Build Me Up, Buttercup" as a prototype of a shuffle pattern song). I remember people making this same error in a post about time signatures a long time ago. Here is a song in the 6/8 time signature:
Now, compare it to the rhythm of the song I presented earlier:
The first one lends itself to counting 6 beats naturally versus the shuffle pattern, 4/4 song by The Temps, which does not.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Possum Tom said:ive got a quick way to fix this disagreement.
turn on your asr10 or mpc or whatever, set the time to 4/4 and try and recreate any of those drum patterns. it wont work.
if you double the tempo youre counting, youll get it.
Hey Tom,
Actually, it will work but I'd have to use the 16th note, triplet (shuffle) setting, seriously ;-) . It would be like programming a 90s type bounce-beat track like "Bucktown" (which is definitely in 4/4 time), but instead, programming the rhythm of The Temps joint.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
turn on your asr10 or mpc or whatever, set the time to 4/4 and try and recreate any of those drum patterns. it wont work.
if you double the tempo youre counting, youll get it.
Hey Tom,
Actually, it will work but I'd have to use the 16th note, triplet (shuffle) setting, seriously ;-) . It would be like programming a 90s type bounce-beat track like "Bucktown" (which is definitely in 4/4 time), but instead, programming the rhythm of The Temps joint.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Big_Stacks said
ossum Tom said:ive got a quick way to fix this disagreement.
turn on your asr10 or mpc or whatever, set the time to 4/4 and try and recreate any of those drum patterns. it wont work.
if you double the tempo youre counting, youll get it.
Hey Tom,
Actually, it will work but I'd have to use the 16th note, triplet (shuffle) setting, seriously ;-) . It would be like programming a 90s type bounce-beat track like "Bucktown" (which is definitely in 4/4 time), but instead, programming the rhythm of The Temps joint.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
no man , the second you put it in triplets it becomes 6/8
you just said it yourself
ossum Tom said:ive got a quick way to fix this disagreement.turn on your asr10 or mpc or whatever, set the time to 4/4 and try and recreate any of those drum patterns. it wont work.
if you double the tempo youre counting, youll get it.
Hey Tom,
Actually, it will work but I'd have to use the 16th note, triplet (shuffle) setting, seriously ;-) . It would be like programming a 90s type bounce-beat track like "Bucktown" (which is definitely in 4/4 time), but instead, programming the rhythm of The Temps joint.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
no man , the second you put it in triplets it becomes 6/8
you just said it yourself
