Where the F*%k is the 2014 NBA Thread?!?!!
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HarveyCanal said:Of course the greatest player in the world is going to live under a microscope. Ask Kareem all about it. But to label anyone with a valid critique a "hater" is some baby fanboy ish. Lebron fucked up by insisting that once Love and Irving went down that he could do it all alone. His own history proves that he can't, but that didn't stop him from turning what should have been viewed as a valiant effort into yet another act of calculated selfishness. But yes, blame people for not sharing in Lebron's complete lack of wherewithall.
I'm not talking right now. I'm talking most scrutinized OF ALL TIME, probably in ANY SPORT. There is no discussion here.
Allen Iverson went to the Finals ONCE. And he lost decisively. Nobody gives a shit about that. Lebron's been to the Finals five straight times, and won twice. Pretty much every NBA player would take that as a great career. And yet "oh he's selfish", "Oh, he should have gotten his teammates more involved", "He quit on his team!! omg". Garbage analysis.
You got Iman Shumpert and JR Smith on the wing, they ain't making cuts to the basket. Movgoz is slow, and takes time getting post position and obviously isn't as dominant as a Shaquille O'neal. So if Dellevedova is turnover-prone at the point, who the fuck is making the right passes at the right time?? You only have ONE superior player and some misfit pieces clearly. The formula had been the same throughout the season. Kyrie, Lebron go crazy. And then JR Smith is streaking. There was no reliable formula, but they still gave the Warriors problems.
I'm not talking right now. I'm talking most scrutinized OF ALL TIME, probably in ANY SPORT. There is no discussion here.
Allen Iverson went to the Finals ONCE. And he lost decisively. Nobody gives a shit about that. Lebron's been to the Finals five straight times, and won twice. Pretty much every NBA player would take that as a great career. And yet "oh he's selfish", "Oh, he should have gotten his teammates more involved", "He quit on his team!! omg". Garbage analysis.
You got Iman Shumpert and JR Smith on the wing, they ain't making cuts to the basket. Movgoz is slow, and takes time getting post position and obviously isn't as dominant as a Shaquille O'neal. So if Dellevedova is turnover-prone at the point, who the fuck is making the right passes at the right time?? You only have ONE superior player and some misfit pieces clearly. The formula had been the same throughout the season. Kyrie, Lebron go crazy. And then JR Smith is streaking. There was no reliable formula, but they still gave the Warriors problems.
yuichi said:HarveyCanal said:Of course the greatest player in the world is going to live under a microscope. Ask Kareem all about it. But to label anyone with a valid critique a "hater" is some baby fanboy ish. Lebron fucked up by insisting that once Love and Irving went down that he could do it all alone. His own history proves that he can't, but that didn't stop him from turning what should have been viewed as a valiant effort into yet another act of calculated selfishness. But yes, blame people for not sharing in Lebron's complete lack of wherewithall.
I'm not talking right now. I'm talking most scrutinized OF ALL TIME, probably in ANY SPORT. There is no discussion here.
Allen Iverson went to the Finals ONCE. And he lost decisively. Nobody gives a shit about that. Lebron's been to the Finals five straight times, and won twice. Pretty much every NBA player would take that as a great career. And yet "oh he's selfish", "Oh, he should have gotten his teammates more involved", "He quit on his team!! omg". Garbage analysis.
You got Iman Shumpert and JR Smith on the wing, they ain't making cuts to the basket. Movgoz is slow, and takes time getting post position and obviously isn't as dominant as a Shaquille O'neal. So if Dellevedova is turnover-prone at the point, who the fuck is making the right passes at the right time?? You only have ONE superior player and some misfit pieces clearly. The formula had been the same throughout the season. Kyrie, Lebron go crazy. And then JR Smith is streaking. There was no reliable formula, but they still gave the Warriors problems.
Bingo
I'm not talking right now. I'm talking most scrutinized OF ALL TIME, probably in ANY SPORT. There is no discussion here.
Allen Iverson went to the Finals ONCE. And he lost decisively. Nobody gives a shit about that. Lebron's been to the Finals five straight times, and won twice. Pretty much every NBA player would take that as a great career. And yet "oh he's selfish", "Oh, he should have gotten his teammates more involved", "He quit on his team!! omg". Garbage analysis.
You got Iman Shumpert and JR Smith on the wing, they ain't making cuts to the basket. Movgoz is slow, and takes time getting post position and obviously isn't as dominant as a Shaquille O'neal. So if Dellevedova is turnover-prone at the point, who the fuck is making the right passes at the right time?? You only have ONE superior player and some misfit pieces clearly. The formula had been the same throughout the season. Kyrie, Lebron go crazy. And then JR Smith is streaking. There was no reliable formula, but they still gave the Warriors problems.
Bingo
Y'all can agree with the headline narrative all you want. I still say the Cavs would have done better attacking small ball with Lebron scoring from within the paint all game and fouling out Bogut, Green, and Lee to where he, Mosgov, and Thompson would then have an easy time scoring at will. Had Blatt been allowed by Lebron to actually gameplan, may be. But no, Lebron wants to jack 7 three-pointers a game instead at a lackluster, non-winning rate. The dude can't be stopped down-low but again, he wants to be Magic Johnson or Oscar Robertson instead.
DJ_Enki said:LeBron led both teams in points, rebounds, and assists in the Finals.
the 9th guy in the rotation on GSW was a 3-time allstar.
name the 9th guy in the rotation on cleveland.
[em](it's joe harris)[/em]
the 9th guy in the rotation on GSW was a 3-time allstar.
name the 9th guy in the rotation on cleveland.
[em](it's joe harris)[/em]
batmon said:HarveyCanal said:Of course the greatest player in the world is going to live under a microscope. Ask Kareem all about it. But to label anyone with a valid critique a "hater" is some baby fanboy ish. Lebron fucked up by insisting that once Love and Irving went down that he could do it all alone. His own history proves that he can't, but that didn't stop him from turning what should have been viewed as a valiant effort into yet another act of calculated selfishness. But yes, blame people for not sharing in Lebron's complete lack of wherewithall.
JR Smith couldn't find his shot. MozGov was well fed by LeBron.
JR Smith and Dellavadova had the lowest shot percentages this series. Lebron's assist stats pretty much nullify anyone who calls him a ball hog. He was playing in the finals with a true bench team. Folks who think he should have been able to do more are ignoring the reality of what he had to work with.
JR Smith couldn't find his shot. MozGov was well fed by LeBron.
JR Smith and Dellavadova had the lowest shot percentages this series. Lebron's assist stats pretty much nullify anyone who calls him a ball hog. He was playing in the finals with a true bench team. Folks who think he should have been able to do more are ignoring the reality of what he had to work with.
This is a pretty ridiculous analogy....many Quarterbacks are given the ability to call an audible. It's part of the game.....if Manning purposefully ignores his coach, acts like a petulant child when the coach is trying to do his job and tries to upstage him on national TV then you might be on to something.
The pace of play is different between the sports. In the NBA if the clock runs out and the ball is doing anything other than being an airborne shot the play/game is over. The pace between plays is different. Everything is different. Lebron doesn't have the luxury of seeing exactly how the defense is going to line up and then call an 'audible' before the action begins. The way basketball plays out, there really isn't time to call an audible towards the end of the game. You can reset/change the play etc but it isn't the same. If Lebron thinks what the coach is drawing up isn't taking into everything into account (as the best player in the NBA right now with a 100% bench team), then he calls it like he sees it and makes his decision...fuck feelings. Lastly, the football helmet masks a LOT of the stink eye that star players and quarterbacks are shooting at their coaching staff.
Based off the "Lebron's a dick because he is changing the coach's plays" argument....Manning is a piece of shit. Which is a complete JOKE because that is what masters of a sport do.
HarveyCanal said:...Lebron wants to jack 7 three-pointers a game instead at a lackluster, non-winning rate...
I always see Lebron's deep field goal attempts and 3 ball attempts as a way to open the paint up more for him. He knows he isn't the best in those departments but if he can force the d' to respect that, then the floor opens up more for him and his team. Doesn't always work out that way...
I always see Lebron's deep field goal attempts and 3 ball attempts as a way to open the paint up more for him. He knows he isn't the best in those departments but if he can force the d' to respect that, then the floor opens up more for him and his team. Doesn't always work out that way...
Lebron didn't need to do "more", other than allow his coach/team to utilize the strategy of playing from the inside out rather than the other way around. But again and again, that would have Lebron looking too much like Anthony Mason instead of Tim Hardaway...and Lebron doesn't think that's good for his public image/legacy, so of course that will never happen, even when such a strategy clearly fits the scenario as an advantage over an opponent.
the difference in 3 point attempts between the cavs and the warriors is a strictly a matter of where in the shot clock they were taken. most of GSW's attempts were between the 10-15 sec mark of the shot clock, and cleveland/lebron's were usually panicky chucks in the last 3 seconds of it. strictly a matter of executing offense and using the 3 ball as a weapon, and not a bail out plan on a broken iso.
HarveyCanal said:Lebron didn't need to do "more", other than allow his coach/team to utilize the strategy of playing from the inside out rather than the other way around. But again and again, that would have Lebron looking too much like Anthony Mason instead of Tim Hardaway...and Lebron doesn't think that's good for his public image/legacy, so of course that will never happen, even when such a strategy clearly fits the scenario as an advantage over an opponent.
LeBron just started Posting- Up recently w/ Miami.
Your asking him to play a mostly back to the basket game w/ a team that doesn't really make cuts. On top of him not really being an elite post-player w/ dominant footwork.
Chris Webber was successful in the post as a Point Power Forward because the Princeton offense had dudes cutting.
MJ and Kobe had developed the unstoppable Turn Around Jump Shot from the Post from the Guard position..
Karl Malone was never a perimeter player or (from the Post)facilitator until later in his career, when he stopped the monster jamming.
I think its too much to ask for him to become more of a true Big man after years of playing on the perimeter.
Mason was an average Post player who just bullied his way when he did get position. Dude actually ran the offense from the wing as a Point Forward when Nellie took over in NYC.
LeBron just started Posting- Up recently w/ Miami.
Your asking him to play a mostly back to the basket game w/ a team that doesn't really make cuts. On top of him not really being an elite post-player w/ dominant footwork.
Chris Webber was successful in the post as a Point Power Forward because the Princeton offense had dudes cutting.
MJ and Kobe had developed the unstoppable Turn Around Jump Shot from the Post from the Guard position..
Karl Malone was never a perimeter player or (from the Post)facilitator until later in his career, when he stopped the monster jamming.
I think its too much to ask for him to become more of a true Big man after years of playing on the perimeter.
Mason was an average Post player who just bullied his way when he did get position. Dude actually ran the offense from the wing as a Point Forward when Nellie took over in NYC.
JectWon said:HarveyCanal said:...Lebron wants to jack 7 three-pointers a game instead at a lackluster, non-winning rate...
I always see Lebron's deep field goal attempts and 3 ball attempts as a way to open the paint up more for him. He knows he isn't the best in those departments but if he can force the d' to respect that, then the floor opens up more for him and his team. Doesn't always work out that way...
This may be true as well. Once he establishes the three ball, it's pretty much game over.
I always see Lebron's deep field goal attempts and 3 ball attempts as a way to open the paint up more for him. He knows he isn't the best in those departments but if he can force the d' to respect that, then the floor opens up more for him and his team. Doesn't always work out that way...
This may be true as well. Once he establishes the three ball, it's pretty much game over.
batmon said:HarveyCanal said:Lebron didn't need to do "more", other than allow his coach/team to utilize the strategy of playing from the inside out rather than the other way around. But again and again, that would have Lebron looking too much like Anthony Mason instead of Tim Hardaway...and Lebron doesn't think that's good for his public image/legacy, so of course that will never happen, even when such a strategy clearly fits the scenario as an advantage over an opponent.
LeBron just started Posting- Up recently w/ Miami.
Your asking him to play a mostly back to the basket game w/ a team that doesn't really make cuts. On top of him not really being an elite post-player w/ dominant footwork.
Chris Webber was successful in the post as a Point Power Forward because the Princeton offense had dudes cutting.
MJ and Kobe had developed the unstoppable Turn Around Jump Shot from the Post from the Guard position..
Karl Malone was never a perimeter player or (from the Post)facilitator until later in his career, when he stopped the monster jamming.
I think its too much to ask for him to become more of a true Big man after years of playing on the perimeter.
I hear ya.
LeBron just started Posting- Up recently w/ Miami.
Your asking him to play a mostly back to the basket game w/ a team that doesn't really make cuts. On top of him not really being an elite post-player w/ dominant footwork.
Chris Webber was successful in the post as a Point Power Forward because the Princeton offense had dudes cutting.
MJ and Kobe had developed the unstoppable Turn Around Jump Shot from the Post from the Guard position..
Karl Malone was never a perimeter player or (from the Post)facilitator until later in his career, when he stopped the monster jamming.
I think its too much to ask for him to become more of a true Big man after years of playing on the perimeter.
I hear ya.
This is a pretty ridiculous analogy....many Quarterbacks are given the ability to call an audible. It's part of the game.....if Manning purposefully ignores his coach, acts like a petulant child when the coach is trying to do his job and tries to upstage him on national TV then you might be on to something.
The pace of play is different between the sports. In the NBA if the clock runs out and the ball is doing anything other than being an airborne shot the play/game is over. The pace between plays is different. Everything is different. Lebron doesn't have the luxury of seeing exactly how the defense is going to line up and then call an 'audible' before the action begins. The way basketball plays out, there really isn't time to call an audible towards the end of the game. You can reset/change the play etc but it isn't the same. If Lebron thinks what the coach is drawing up isn't taking into everything into account (as the best player in the NBA right now with a 100% bench team), then he calls it like he sees it and makes his decision...fuck feelings. Lastly, the football helmet masks a LOT of the stink eye that star players and quarterbacks are shooting at their coaching staff.
Based off the "Lebron's a dick because he is changing the coach's plays" argument....Manning is a piece of shit. Which is a complete JOKE because that is what masters of a sport do.
When an athlete gets the reputation of being a jerk it rarely has to do with his talent or level of performance. It has to do with how he carries himself and treats those around him. Peyton Manning may over rule his coach and call his own plays but he does it in a way that isn't offensive like say a Jay Cutler does. Cutler has the reputation of being a jerk while playing the same way every other QB does, what sets him apart is the way he carries himself and people easily recognize he's a jerk.
Lebron has a long history of being a jerk and his latest total disrespect of his coach just shows he is still the same jerk he's always been. Sure, I get it that he's the "greatest" player in the game and that some consider how he acts as "swagger", but the bottom line is some athletes get the justified reputation of being a jerk and he's near the top of the list imo.
Let me ask you this....do you consider ANY pro athlete a jerk? And if so who and why?
Rockadelic said:
Let me ask you this....do you consider ANY pro athlete a jerk? And if so who and why?
Virtually ALL pro athletes that are the head of their team are most likely jerks. I think they have to be to do what they do at that level to some extent. Furthermore, I can't recall any athlete who is considered "the best player in the league" who didn't do jerk-level shit.
I'm not here to say Lebron ISN'T a jerk. Our whole convo started (probably my fault) because I was trying to point out the ridiculousness of so many sports-network talking heads saying Lebron is a jerk because he has no problem disregarding his coaches plays/advice.
Let me ask you this....do you consider ANY pro athlete a jerk? And if so who and why?
Virtually ALL pro athletes that are the head of their team are most likely jerks. I think they have to be to do what they do at that level to some extent. Furthermore, I can't recall any athlete who is considered "the best player in the league" who didn't do jerk-level shit.
I'm not here to say Lebron ISN'T a jerk. Our whole convo started (probably my fault) because I was trying to point out the ridiculousness of so many sports-network talking heads saying Lebron is a jerk because he has no problem disregarding his coaches plays/advice.
Unless it's some domestic violence shit or murder, I think it's hard to conclude a player's character just through what's fed through media. So I personally don't really judge or care. All the assholish behavior that may be displayed on-court is acceptable. The other dudes are pros as well, and the best teammates and winners that Kobe and Jordan every played with, were those that didn't back down from the assholish behavior, but stepped up and took their own big shots. I remember vividly how D Fish wouldn't give up the rock sometimes when KB was asking for it, and would instead go create his own shit, etc.
This is a pretty ridiculous analogy....many Quarterbacks are given the ability to call an audible. It's part of the game.....if Manning purposefully ignores his coach, acts like a petulant child when the coach is trying to do his job and tries to upstage him on national TV then you might be on to something.
The pace of play is different between the sports. In the NBA if the clock runs out and the ball is doing anything other than being an airborne shot the play/game is over. The pace between plays is different. Everything is different. Lebron doesn't have the luxury of seeing exactly how the defense is going to line up and then call an 'audible' before the action begins. The way basketball plays out, there really isn't time to call an audible towards the end of the game. You can reset/change the play etc but it isn't the same. If Lebron thinks what the coach is drawing up isn't taking into everything into account (as the best player in the NBA right now with a 100% bench team), then he calls it like he sees it and makes his decision...fuck feelings. Lastly, the football helmet masks a LOT of the stink eye that star players and quarterbacks are shooting at their coaching staff.
Based off the "Lebron's a dick because he is changing the coach's plays" argument....Manning is a piece of shit. Which is a complete JOKE because that is what masters of a sport do.
When an athlete gets the reputation of being a jerk it rarely has to do with his talent or level of performance. It has to do with how he carries himself and treats those around him. Peyton Manning may over rule his coach and call his own plays but he does it in a way that isn't offensive like say a Jay Cutler does. Cutler has the reputation of being a jerk while playing the same way every other QB does, what sets him apart is the way he carries himself and people easily recognize he's a jerk.
Lebron has a long history of being a jerk and his latest total disrespect of his coach just shows he is still the same jerk he's always been. Sure, I get it that he's the "greatest" player in the game and that some consider how he acts as "swagger", but the bottom line is some athletes get the justified reputation of being a jerk and he's near the top of the list imo.
Let me ask you this....do you consider ANY pro athlete a jerk? And if so who and why?
LeBron doesn't deserve to be compared to Peyton Manning. He plays much better when it really matters than Manning could ever dream of doing. Manning grows a hockey puck in his throat almost every January.
I've seen the Peyton Manning face enough times to know he's a jerk if judged by the same standards LeBron has had to deal with.
Love opts out.
I'm sure it was amazing playing with Lebron and not getting his touches and reading "Cavs are actually better w.o love to limit Lebron's touches" all post-season
MVP tho
I'm sure it was amazing playing with Lebron and not getting his touches and reading "Cavs are actually better w.o love to limit Lebron's touches" all post-season
MVP tho
