YouTube diggers - RR

[LoopDreams]

Jonny_Paycheck said:Tl;dr but nobody cares about sound quality, kids are listening to this shit on YouTube anyway (thru cheap earbuds/comp speakers)f




You can reduce these people to drooling jibberin idiots by sitting them down infront of a good system and have them listen to something they know from a quality source. Kinda like smoking some indoor chronic after years of overfertilized outdoor shwagg.

 

[dj_cityboy]

you are also assuming that every youtube video is available on vinyl as well? people are sampling more than music on youtube, I have lifted music/TV samples/short vocal samples/music from demo videos/radio samples/crowds, so long as I find the sample I am looking for I really could care less where I find my shit to be honest.

 

[parallax]

Jonny_Paycheck said:there is absolutely no legal privilege granted by owning the record you sample vs sampling off youtube.




I never stated anything about legal privilege, Johnny. I said "at least" the person sampling owns the record. To me, that makes it a bit better than straight ripping something off YouTube.





Again, the bigger issue to me is sound quality. But yeah, I think the original artist should always be credited for their work if it's lifted and incorporated into something else.

 

[Gary]

I have no opinion on this.





But I did have the urge to post that I have no opinion.





In 2014 soulstrut is about my urges.

 

[prof_rockwell]

I think it's also fair to point out that alot of the 'real heads' were going though their parents record collections and playing them on their parents sound systems. I can't tell you how many interviews I read back in the day where it was basically "I would have to sneak into my pop's record collection and practice scratching on his turntable when he wasn't at home, otherwise he's whup my ass for breaking his needles".





Whatevs, I kinda agree with JP and Phil Most, it's hip hop yo. And the shit dudes used to do when they would take a sample of a record at 45rpm and then slow it down in the sampler so they could sample a longer section of the record resulted in all kinds of weird digital artifacts - shit that a lot of 'real heads' covet as good because it's 'dirtier'.

 

[swissbeatz]

But then there is a good and bad "dirtier". The problem with mp3 artifacts is that you don't really hear them (that was the point...) unless it┬┤s less than 128kpbs, but nonetheless they suck the life out the music, fuck up reverb tails, blurry the stereo image, takes EQ very badly because phase is fucked up, etc...., etc.....

 

[Jonny_Paycheck]

nobody cares

 

[swissbeatz]

(Paging thes one)

 

[parallax]

Jonny_Paycheck said:nobody cares




Based on some of the responses and the number of views, I'd say that's a slight over-statement.

 

[Jonny_Paycheck]

parallax said:Jonny_Paycheck said:nobody cares




Based on some of the responses and the number of views, I'd say that's a slight over-statement.




nope





if people cared, it would be an issue. it's not. the vast majority of rap music with samples that's been released over the last few years did not come from vinyl. even if it's not from youtube, it is often from mp3s.

 

[swissbeatz]

I was just saying that the mp3 dirt isn't desirable as an euphonic artifacts than SP1200 dirt, replying to what prof rockwell was saying.





But I think rap music has always had a love/hate relationship with "sound quality". There is the super IDGF do what you want mentality, but you also have the Dres, the Quiks, etc, etc....

 

[BeatChemist]

Jonny_Paycheck saidarallax said:Jonny_Paycheck said:nobody cares




Based on some of the responses and the number of views, I'd say that's a slight over-statement.




nope





if people cared, it would be an issue. it's not. the vast majority of rap music with samples that's been released over the last few years did not come from vinyl. even if it's not from youtube, it is often from mp3s.




This.





Nobody listening cares. It's sad but true. Throw an 808 kick under that bitch and a nice sub bass line and all the concerns of "fidelity" cease to matter, because it still bumps in the whip/clup. Ain't nobody using filtered baselines anymore - so bass purity don't matter. And nobody listening to rap is going to have a "man, these strings and horns and keys don't have the reverb trails and stereo images I like... shit's wack!!" Add that to the fact that we've been introduced to so many sonic textures/styles by now that digital compression artifacts are perceived as distorted or effected on purpose.





It is what it is.





I'd be interested to hear Thes' take on this.

 

[Controller_7]

Take your face off! Nobody talks about bass purity like that!





Earbuds, shitty crosley iPod docks, computer speakers, etc. that's today's stereo for most people. And in the end, a beat is hot or not, regardless of it's origins.





I get it, shit does sound better in high quality, but ultimately that's like frosting on cake. At the core, people either like the music or they don't and sound quality plays very little in the decision. I mean, yes, straight muffled garbage is one thing, but non audiophile is another.





People get geeked on shitty rips of early 80s rap live shows. Just hearing them is the experience, not the fidelity. If anything, the shitty quality adds a mystique.

 

[swissbeatz]

BeatChemist said: "man, these strings and horns and keys don't have the reverb trails and stereo images I like... shit's wack!!"




Listeners never say "ooooh these vocals are very harsh around 5k", "they should have cut 800hz on the reverb", either.... Yet, there are some people that care about that and some even paid for it, in the production process.

 

[LaserWolf]

While most listeners are unaware of what makes good production values, most respond well to good production and don't care for bad production.





Of course good and bad are subjective, but Joel Dorn and Rudy Van Gelder and George Martin made good musicians sound great by caring about these things.





Sam Phillips, Leonard Chess and Norman Petty* made records that sounded raw, but believe they worked hard to get the sound they wanted.





The public didn't know or care about their productions techniques, they just bought the records.





As for sampling youtube, if a producer can make it work, then it is a good thing. (Musically not legally.)





*All my examples are from the past because that is all I know.

 

[parallax]

Fair enough.





I guess I'm just aging and still romanticizing "the art form".

 

[james]

Controller_7 said: At the core, people either like the music or they don't and sound quality plays very little in the decision.

True.





And on the other side, the creative side, while I would not go so far as to say that creativity and heavy investment in sound quality are mutually exclusive, I will say that the folks most concerned about sound quality and the folks with interesting artistic ideas seem to very rarely be the same folks. People who sweat fidelity and gear seem more prone to taking a craft-heavy, outside-in approach to creation. And while that approach is not without its place or its merits, its products are seldom the things that move people and/or endure.

 

[LaserWolf]

james said:Controller_7 said: At the core, people either like the music or they don't and sound quality plays very little in the decision.

True.





And on the other side, the creative side, while I would not go so far as to say that creativity and heavy investment in sound quality are mutually exclusive, I will say that the folks most concerned about sound quality and the folks with interesting artistic ideas seem to very rarely be the same folks. People who sweat fidelity and gear seem more prone to taking a craft-heavy, outside-in approach to creation. And while that approach is not without its place or its merits, its products are seldom the things that move people and/or endure.




I gave examples of producers/engineers "who sweat fidelity and gear" who I think moved people.





Can you give examples of people who don't "sweat fidelity and gear" and move people and those who do who don't?

 

[BeatChemist]

swissbeatz said:BeatChemist said: "man, these strings and horns and keys don't have the reverb trails and stereo images I like... shit's wack!!"




Listeners never say "ooooh these vocals are very harsh around 5k", "they should have cut 800hz on the reverb", either.... Yet, there are some people that care about that and some even paid for it, in the production process.




Don't mistake my realism for a lack of appreciation for professional quality mixing and mastering. I don't want sibilants grating my ears for 4.5 minutes straight, and I don't want a track that's slammed into Waves L2 for it's 'mastering'. But if you're a producer and you can make a hot beat with a youtube sample, I am not going to think you're cheating. Fuck rules. Fuck all that shit. If it sounds good, it sounds good.





And I can totally get on board with the generalization that increased concern for audio fidelity means decreased creativity. Obviously not all the time. But I have found that the more rules you have about what that perfect sound should be, the less you're likely to take a chance that might break those rules. Technicality is almost inversely related to creativity in this way.

 

[swissbeatz]

james said:


And on the other side, the creative side, while I would not go so far as to say that creativity and heavy investment in sound quality are mutually exclusive, I will say that the folks most concerned about sound quality and the folks with interesting artistic ideas seem to very rarely be the same folks. People who sweat fidelity and gear seem more prone to taking a craft-heavy, outside-in approach to creation. And while that approach is not without its place or its merits, its products are seldom the things that move people and/or endure.




But records are seldom made by one person. Interesting and groundbreaking musical creation is often magnified by good engineering. And by good I mean "make it sound better without detracting from the raw idea" and that's what's most successful engineer do. The-Dream won't sound as good without Dave Pensado, Kendrick won't sound as great without Derek Ali,...