caverndiscos pt.2

Whenever hits on my eBay RSS feeds come up, I get excited and then when I see "caverndiscos" in the seller's column, it's a deflation since I know the odds of scoring a bargain are slim.





Of course, if I'm selling consignment through him, it's all good and then some!
 
It??s rare to find Brazilian records from the early 1970s still with shrink wrap though they exist and it did occur on many labels though it is perceived as a myth, as few still exist like that today.





I??d highly doubt that is an import. It??s also not the first Verocai to be sold in shrink. There was one sold a few years ago in shrink for MUCH less than the current price on his auction right now, that is unless it is not the same one being auction that is. Take a look on Popsike.





On the auction, whilst it??s gracefull to acknowledge people it is wrongfull information. Yes Tropicalia "discovered" this record though the people who own Tropicalia are called MARCIO AND BRUNO, not Marcus. Also it was not Marcio who "discovered" the record it was Bruno in 1990 - I say "discovered" as that is what the auction implies, what in fact happened was the English and Japanese were buying as much as they could from Brazil and not telling shop owners what it was they were looking for so as not to inform them and inflate prices until one day, an idiot from Russia, responsible for many shitty bootlegs during the 1990s who was also a theif because he took money from these artists and actually stole other things and is infamous for that in Brazil. He gave Bruno a list of what he was looking for and the prices he??d sell them for in the U.K, the Verocai was already known outside of Brazil for a good 5 years.





Bruno found a copy and sold it to the Russian gentleman for the wholesome amount of $30. The Russian man is responsible for creating the absurb inflation of Brazilian records we see today.





The Verocai was never imported and it was not burned in a fire either, this is sensationalism. The honest truth is that it was pressed in small amounts and was a flop.





Continental was a relatively small label and by the arrival of the 1970s and was one of the labels which was economically forced to recycle records that did not sell, so my beleif is that the remaing Verocai??s were not burned as there were terrible problems with oil in Brazil in the 70s, 80s and 90s until Petrobras was formed and Brazil started to exploit its own territory, for that reason alone I do not see a label that was formed in the 1950s with many years of pressing records behind them in a country with ridiculous importation taxes burning their stock. Not one person has ever spoke of a fire in many years.





Labels like Philips of course were corporations and never recycled. Logic.





Just to add: what a find!
 
Thanks for all the info. Sorry I messed up the name, it's been almost 3 years since I was down there. I heard more or less the same story with quite a bit more about the crooks that were coming in the 90s and really bullying store owners, all while standing next to one of them who shall go unnamed, who didn't understand our conversation despite claiming to live in Rio part-time.





I'm curious where the fire rumor started, as it's one I've heard so many times at this point - I'm certainly not trying to perpetuate it if it's not true. The oil crisis and recycling could account for the rarity just as well, it'd be interesting to get a definitive answer. There are certainly a number of other records on Continental that I could imagine this having happened to as well.





I'm a bit dubious of the statement that one Russian guy created "absurd inflation of Brazilian records" though, since I really don't feel like relative to what's going on in the rest of the world of collectible rare groove records, they're really much different - there's a lot of stuff I still think is undervalued considering how tough it is to find clean. I'm unclear on the story as you present it, since the one I heard is that while copies of Verocai had been sold in the past, it was a sale to a guy in the UK for about $200 that really blew the record up on the rare groove scene. The Verocai album is, beyond being a great record, a really interesting case study in how an obscure record achieves such huge notoriety abroad.
 
I??m not implying this is you in any way but I imagine that the rumor, in which I??m not saying is true or false as I don??t know as well (who does), I just have my logical opinion and my own experiences, tending to water down all rumours by about 99% is that people with that record to sell (and any record for that matter) will always make up bullshit to make more money, again, I don??t beleive nor am I implying that is you and we are all free to speak of rumours.





This Russian guy is basically greedy and wanted to corner off the market and gave a list to Bruno who at the time was selling records on the streets, this was before Tropicalia opened as a shop. He gave prices because he wanted Bruno to separate these records because the Russian guy would pay a better price, like 50% of the international market price. What actually happened though was the guys at Tropicalia just bumped up the prices for everyone (quite fairly) and so did all the other sellers once they got wind of it. This is just about the Brazilian scene. I guess it??s just how it happens. I imagine that it was similar in other countries with rare grooves.





Yes, people claiming to live (on and off), have lived or have visited Brazil for decades and then falling on the wayside when it comes to speaking or knowledge is ammusing.
 
The Russian guy you speak of is the infamous G*nnar*y, who actually has a classical music composer background.


The story goes he was in London or Paris in the early 90s and discovered the hype around Brazilian records that was taking place! He just took the titles, and a list of records wanted by certain collectors/record hustlers he came into contact with in some of the well known Soho shops (these people who gave him titles and info shall remain nameless). Upon returning to Rio he then found the records, as we now know "by hook or by crook"...LOL!





There are many various stories going round about some of the tricks he got up to, appears he did not care about the music too much, only in making money from the records!


Once I was standing by the record sellers near the Opera House, and the police came by looking for him. They wanted to speak to him about an incident of a man having been shot dead on his farm property!!!





To be honest, before G*nnar*y was hustling the records and pressing the bootlegs up in London, other people were visiting Brazil on crate digging trips. A couple of guys I know about were making runs to Brazil in the mid to late 80s buying up stuff for almost nothing, and then selling them on for big money to collectors in the U.K. and Japan upon returning home. Stuff like Tenorio Junior, Azymuth's 1st LP and Ana Mazzotti for ??200 - ??250 back in 1992 (stuff they paid no more than a few dollars at the most for).








This is the origins of the hiked market price for a lot of the 'holy grail' records that are now on many collectors wants list...





I was also surprised to see the Verocai in a shrink wrap, as I've never seen a Brazilian gatefold LP in one before (not to say that they don't exist, and were originally sold as such)...
 
moleque said:It??s also not the first Verocai to be sold in shrink. There was one sold a few years ago in shrink. Take a look on Popsike.




I can confirm that the copy that Spelunk is selling is the same copy that was sold on eBay in 2004.
 
Mongo_Slade said:moleque said:It??s also not the first Verocai to be sold in shrink. There was one sold a few years ago in shrink. Take a look on Popsike.




I can confirm that the copy that Spelunk is selling is the same copy that was sold on eBay in 2004.




LOL. What's comes around goes back around again.
 
Duderonomy said:I wish somebody with a clean copy of the Verocai would organise a legit re-ish.




I was always under the impression that the Luv N' Haight reissue was legit!


They didn't have the master tapes as far as I know, possibly because they no longer exist!!!





Would there be any point in making a new reissue from a vinyl copy once again, surely only worth doing if the master-tapes do still exist, and could be remastered in the process.


My own copy is in top shape and would suggest if someone did do it that they make sure the sleeve is a gatefold like the original, with the nice inner photo's on show...
 
moleque said:The Verocai was never imported and it was not burned in a fire either, this is sensationalism.




I never heard this rumor, but it doesn't make any sense. Why would they burn them, wouldn't they just throw them out? Burning makes no sense.





I do believe that they would have ground them down to recycle, however. Having a number of Continental records from this time, I can attest that they sound like recycled vinyl, including my Verocai.
 
TDLT02 said:Duderonomy said:I wish somebody with a clean copy of the Verocai would organise a legit re-ish.




I was always under the impression that the Luv N' Haight reissue was legit!.

The common complaint is that the sound quality of that reissue was poor.
 
When Ferrari/FourtyFivan posted mp3s of his OG copy, there was stereo phasing heard that was not in the reissue, among other sound defects found in the reissue.
 
TDLT02 said:Duderonomy said:I wish somebody with a clean copy of the Verocai would organise a legit re-ish.







Would there be any point in making a new reissue from a vinyl copy once again




Using the folks I work with, I could have made this sound way better.
 
great background moleque





man, i dont know how well it transfers into print or video, but its interesting thinking about the wildwest days of record hunting. i guess there are always folks who seek out the frontiers where the international market hasnt quite caught up to yet. the record collector in me starts drooling at the unchecked shelves of 45s in the midwest and south or on late 80s street markets in brazil, nigeria or wherever. makes me nostalgic for my early digging days when everything seemed so new.
 
i feel you,


my homeland senegal would have been incredible in the early 90's it's been picked clean since


but i do know a ethnomusicologist who has put out 2 lps and is buying out old musician friends collections in order to build a museum..can't wait to check that out!
 
90s were gold in Brazil...


A lot of the radio staions were clearing out their vinyl and converting to CDs. All the rare records, and in many cases in good condition. Back in those days there were perticular records that were still only known to a handful of people in the know, or people that had actually visited Brazil on digging trips.


So many beautiful records that you'd never seen or heard of before, there right in front of your eye's. There was not a lot of locals guys at the time who were bothering to buy this stuff, most young guys around the markets were into buying rock (Brazilian, American & British).
 
HOLLAFAME said:.


The soundclips have certainly been enriching my last 3 work days.




:beerbang:
 
The other thing with the stations is that they received records only for radio play and not commercial release on a physical media. Many killer psych and funk 45??s out there which need a reissue.