Comparing Hillary and Obamas actual senate records

[keithvanhorn]

Not only is this true, I believe it's one of the most encouraging things to happen in the U.S. in a long while.

Voting a "party line" is absolute bullshit. The fact that people will support Obama for who he is and not what party he belongs to is a big step in a direction that this country needs to move forward in.

It's a sign that the two party system has run it's course.

The more free thinking Indepenedents we have the better off we'll be.

this is such bullshit. there is no "independents" position on any issue. we use the terms liberal and conservative interchangeably with democrat and republican for a reason. party lines are in fact very important in elections, because they allow people to cast votes based on principles of a party - as opposed to spending an extraordinary amount of time to learn what each candidate's position is on every issue.

perhaps that is okay for a presidential election, but i live in a city where there is about 30 different offices to fill each election - including judgeships. i try to read up on city politics but when it comes down to things like city council, i'm not exactly well versed in what separates the individual candidates. that is why we have party lines. i'll gladly pull the lever on any random democrat against any random republican. you just don't seem to understand that many liberals, including myself, are disgusted by the positions of the right.

 

[Rockadelic]

this is such bullshit. i'll gladly pull the lever on any random democrat against any random republican. you just don't seem to understand that many liberals, including myself, are disgusted by the positions of the right.

You're the problem, not the solution.


What YOU don't understand is that you are no different that those "many Conservatives , who are disgusted by the positions of the Left and would gladly pull the lever on any random Republican against any random Democrat.

People like you perpetuate an "If your not with us your against us" mentality when what this country really needs is Unity .

And THAT is why Barack has people excited.

 

[keithvanhorn]

this is such bullshit. i'll gladly pull the lever on any random democrat against any random republican. you just don't seem to understand that many liberals, including myself, are disgusted by the positions of the right.

You're the problem, not the solution.


What YOU don't understand is that you are no different that those "many Conservatives , who are disgusted by the positions of the Left and would gladly pull the lever on any random Republican against any random Democrat.

People like you perpetuate an "If your not with us your against us" mentality when what this country really needs is Unity .

And THAT is why Barack has people excited.

did you read what i wrote? stop suckling from obama's nipple for a minute, you're like a broken record, regardless of the subject matter. part of the reason we have a 2 party system is because there are democratic and republican principles - and people can be uninformed about the candidates, yet still make a relevant choice when at the polls. if there were no parties, you'd not only have a lot less people voting, but only the most informed voters would actually be casting a relevant ballot. i mean - you edit my post to show my personal opinion about right wing policies - okay - but that is not the justification for the 2 party system. And btw, what was your position on partisanship during slavery, jim crow, etc.?

 

[Swayze]

this is such bullshit. i'll gladly pull the lever on any random democrat against any random republican. you just don't seem to understand that many liberals, including myself, are disgusted by the positions of the right.

You're the problem, not the solution.


What YOU don't understand is that you are no different that those "many Conservatives , who are disgusted by the positions of the Left and would gladly pull the lever on any random Republican against any random Democrat.

People like you perpetuate an "If your not with us your against us" mentality when what this country really needs is Unity .

And THAT is why Barack has people excited.

did you read what i wrote? stop suckling from obama's nipple for a minute, you're like a broken record, regardless of the subject matter. part of the reason we have a 2 party system is because there are democratic and republican principles - and people can be uninformed about the candidates, yet still make a relevant choice when at the polls. if there were no parties, you'd not only have a lot less people voting, but only the most informed voters would actually be casting a relevant ballot. i mean - you edit my post to show my personal opinion about right wing policies - okay - but that is not the justification for the 2 party system. And btw, what was your position on partisanship during slavery, jim crow, etc.?
Only 2 sides to any issue?

GTFOHWTBS!

 

[keithvanhorn]

Only 2 sides to any issue?

GTFOHWTBS!

 

[Rockadelic]

this is such bullshit. i'll gladly pull the lever on any random democrat against any random republican. you just don't seem to understand that many liberals, including myself, are disgusted by the positions of the right.

You're the problem, not the solution.


What YOU don't understand is that you are no different that those "many Conservatives , who are disgusted by the positions of the Left and would gladly pull the lever on any random Republican against any random Democrat.

People like you perpetuate an "If your not with us your against us" mentality when what this country really needs is Unity .

And THAT is why Barack has people excited.

did you read what i wrote? stop suckling from obama's nipple for a minute, you're like a broken record, regardless of the subject matter. part of the reason we have a 2 party system is because there are democratic and republican principles - and people can be uninformed about the candidates, yet still make a relevant choice when at the polls. if there were no parties, you'd not only have a lot less people voting, but only the most informed voters would actually be casting a relevant ballot. i mean - you edit my post to show my personal opinion about right wing policies - okay - but that is not the justification for the 2 party system. And btw, what was your position on partisanship during slavery, jim crow, etc.?
Dude...please stop.....being passionate about a candidate is "suckling from their nipple" unless of course it's Hillary and then it's just "making the right choice".....uninformed voters making relevant choices based on a party line.....you must be kidding......who's suggesting NO parties...how about MORE parties.

Certainly you know that some of the biggest proponents of the two party system is the Far Right.....figure out why and then look in the mirror.


I believe that this Presidential Election will bring more voters to the polls than any other.....and those voters will be the INDEPENDENTS that you don't think exist or first time voters who FINALLY feel that there is a candidate they can get behind.

Most of those people will stay home or vote for McCain if Hillary is the candidate....get that into your Hillary coated skull.....it's just the way it is.

It's sad not everyone can be as smart and as informed as you.

And while I am older than you, I was not around during Slavery days.

Get all your vitriol out now, you'll be suckling from Obama's nipple soon enough.

 

[Swayze]

Only 2 sides to any issue?

GTFOHWTBS!

Nah, seriously explain yourself.

You're saying there can only be a Rep or Dem side to an issue? And that all candidates fall within their respective party's unspoken issue guidelines?

Now you just sound stupid.

 

[JRoot]

Not only is this true, I believe it's one of the most encouraging things to happen in the U.S. in a long while.

Voting a "party line" is absolute bullshit. The fact that people will support Obama for who he is and not what party he belongs to is a big step in a direction that this country needs to move forward in.

It's a sign that the two party system has run it's course.

The more free thinking Indepenedents we have the better off we'll be.

this is such bullshit. there is no "independents" position on any issue. we use the terms liberal and conservative interchangeably with democrat and republican for a reason. party lines are in fact very important in elections, because they allow people to cast votes based on principles of a party - as opposed to spending an extraordinary amount of time to learn what each candidate's position is on every issue.
You're missing the point in your rush to hatred and bile. The point is that in the primary campaigns, Senator Clinton and Senator Obama are roughly splitting the people who are self-identifying as Democrats. Check your exit poll data. If anything, Clinton has a slight advantage among Democrats. But she's not winning primaries because independents, i.e. those people who choose to cast votes not based on principles of a party, are pulling the lever for Obama 2 to 1. Those people may be liberals, but I think that the liberals are much more likely to be subsumed among the Democrats. The more likely inference is that they are people whose allegiances are not bound to the principles of a party, and they are voting for Obama, not for Clinton. Whether they will vote for Clinton in a general election remains to be seen, but I think the poll data shows that they are less likely to support her than they are to support McCain.

Does that make sense to someone wedded to party ideology? No. Does it make sense as a matter of general policy? No. But does it make sense as an expression of political culture in the U.S.? Yes. There is a small but significant segment of the electorate that casts votes based on idiosyncratic reasons divorced from politics and policy. All the idiosyncracies flow towards Obama in a battle against Clinton, but I'm afraid that they all flow towards McCain in a battle against Clinton.

You gotta look past it and think for a minute.
Peace,
JRoot

 

[gruntgravel]

Me say all Republicans bad, all democrats good.

 

[spelunk]

you just sound stupid.

you just sound stupid.

you just sound stupid.

 

[deej]

That blog entry is a very superficial look at each of these bills and it is pretty clear that she has no idea what she is talking about. Using the titles of the bills as demonstrations of how one is more effective or pointed than another = flaming poptart status revealed.

Also, this quotation of hers:

And the list of co-sponsors showed something about how they lead, inspire and work with others.

Is an absurd assertion.

BTW- I'm an Obama supporter.
i think its obv shes coming from an angle of unfamiliarity but i think the piece is still very useful for showing 1. hillary's lack of cosponsors on bills is suspect and 2. that obama is dealing w/ a wider breadth of issues

 

[keithvanhorn]

Dude...please stop.....being passionate about a candidate is "suckling from their nipple" unless of course it's Hillary and then it's just "making the right choice".....uninformed voters making relevant choices based on a party line.....you must be kidding......who's suggesting NO parties...how about MORE parties.

Certainly you know that some of the biggest proponents of the two party system is the Far Right.....figure out why and then look in the mirror.


I believe that this Presidential Election will bring more voters to the polls than any other.....and those voters will be the INDEPENDENTS that you don't think exist or first time voters who FINALLY feel that there is a candidate they can get behind.

Most of those people will stay home or vote for McCain if Hillary is the candidate....get that into your Hillary coated skull.....it's just the way it is.

It's sad not everyone can be as smart and as informed as you.

And while I am older than you, I was not around during Slavery days.

Get all your vitriol out now, you'll be suckling from Obama's nipple soon enough.

i haven't injected hillary into this, your talking about obama as if his favor among independents is evidence that our 2 party system is antiquated or dysfunctional - but your argument doesn't make any sense. there will always be partisan issues - that's how they become issues in the first place. the terms liberal and conservative go back thousands of years. i don't disagree that people can be both on various issues, but that doesn't change the usefulness of the dem/liberal - gop/conservative system. again, as far as partisanship goes, i'll live with people saying i'm "stupid" for being partisan. you sound like lawyers i deal with who are afraid to try a case and always want to settle. sometimes you have to fight.

and as far as supporting obama? why wouldn't i?

 

[batmon]

plaese to stop

 

[Swayze]

Dude...please stop.....being passionate about a candidate is "suckling from their nipple" unless of course it's Hillary and then it's just "making the right choice".....uninformed voters making relevant choices based on a party line.....you must be kidding......who's suggesting NO parties...how about MORE parties.

Certainly you know that some of the biggest proponents of the two party system is the Far Right.....figure out why and then look in the mirror.


I believe that this Presidential Election will bring more voters to the polls than any other.....and those voters will be the INDEPENDENTS that you don't think exist or first time voters who FINALLY feel that there is a candidate they can get behind.

Most of those people will stay home or vote for McCain if Hillary is the candidate....get that into your Hillary coated skull.....it's just the way it is.

It's sad not everyone can be as smart and as informed as you.

And while I am older than you, I was not around during Slavery days.

Get all your vitriol out now, you'll be suckling from Obama's nipple soon enough.

i haven't injected hillary into this, your talking about obama as if his favor among independents is evidence that our 2 party system is antiquated or dysfunctional - but your argument doesn't make any sense. there will always be partisan issues - that's how they become issues in the first place. the terms liberal and conservative go back thousands of years. i don't disagree that people can be both on various issues, but that doesn't change the usefulness of the dem/liberal - gop/conservative system. again, as far as partisanship goes, i'll live with people saying i'm "stupid" for being partisan. you sound like lawyers i deal with who are afraid to try a case and always want to settle. sometimes you have to fight.

and as far as supporting obama? why wouldn't i?
Serious question, what is the benefit of being partisan?

 

[Deep_Sang]

Serious question, what is the benefit of being partisan?

I got this one. Knowing which lever to pull when you don't know anything about either of the candidates.

 

[white_tea]

Not only is this true, I believe it's one of the most encouraging things to happen in the U.S. in a long while.

Voting a "party line" is absolute bullshit. The fact that people will support Obama for who he is and not what party he belongs to is a big step in a direction that this country needs to move forward in.

It's a sign that the two party system has run it's course.

The more free thinking Indepenedents we have the better off we'll be.

this is such bullshit. there is no "independents" position on any issue. we use the terms liberal and conservative interchangeably with democrat and republican for a reason. party lines are in fact very important in elections, because they allow people to cast votes based on principles of a party - as opposed to spending an extraordinary amount of time to learn what each candidate's position is on every issue.

perhaps that is okay for a presidential election, but i live in a city where there is about 30 different offices to fill each election - including judgeships. i try to read up on city politics but when it comes down to things like city council, i'm not exactly well versed in what separates the individual candidates. that is why we have party lines. i'll gladly pull the lever on any random democrat against any random republican. you just don't seem to understand that many liberals, including myself, are disgusted by the positions of the right.
I can agree with this in principle, but it doesn't apply in most city council situations. By and large, candidates from the same party are going against one another for seats on the city council. At least in Illinois, where the council seats in most cities and towns are determined by ward or neighborhood, which more often than not have similar demogprahics.

 

[JRoot]

Serious question, what is the benefit of being partisan?

You can be right or you can get left.

 

[Rockadelic]

KVH....I can deal with you calling me any name in the book....but PLEASE don't compare me to a Lawyer.

The two party system is antiquated and dysfunctional....and yes, Barack has exposed that moreso than any other candidate in recent history.

One anecdote I like about the two party system is one about when Jesse Ventura shockingly won the Minnesota Governors race and BOTH parties immediately tried to recruit him.

Why....because they are BOTH deathly afraid of free thinking voters.

And as a Dem sheep I would certainly expect you to support Barack.

 

[white_tea]

Serious question, what is the benefit of being partisan?

A lot of my friends don't follow politics whatsoever, to say nothing about exercising their right to vote. I'd rather have a friend who has a party that aligns with most of their principles and votes along those lines, than one who doesn't vote at all.

 

[keithvanhorn]

Serious question, what is the benefit of being partisan?

You can be right or you can get left.
what are you even talking about? in the current 2 party system what is the importance of partisanship? as opposed to compromising on issues. i dont know, go read brown v. board of education. our laws and policies don't always mesh with what is right, sometimes they border on disgraceful. should we have compromised on segregation or voting rights for women? should dems compromise on abortion? healthcare? welfare?