Computer Beatmaking?

[peacefulrotation]

Just out of curiosity, am I a complete neanderthal to be making music on Cool Edit Pro 2? And is it possible to make a decent sounding vinyl release using this program? I cannot afford any of the industry standards and probably won't be able to in the near future either.

signed

Peter Quistgard

Thats one of the realest ways to make samplebased music on a computer! Akos 7" was made in Cool Edit, and that shit sounds 100 times better than most pro-tools sessions. No need to change unless you want to start making synth based beats I'd say.

What are you trying to achieve?

right on, yeah mainly sample based stuff, but I also lay down some bass, trumpet and vocal tracks from time to time. I have a Boss drum machine that I do synth style beats on, then record it straight in to a session. (low budg all the way

) Also DJ related stuff like remixes, mixtapes and some scratch music...

Yeah Ako's stuff with cool edit is really dope, glad to hear it transferred well to vinyl.

 

[Bambouche]

Thanks for all the information. I appreciate hearing your thoughts/experience. From what I've been reading, it seems either Cubase SX3 or Pro Tools would be the way to go. There seems to be a pretty even split between these two camps.

Personally, I'm not scared of learning new programs. And I think I would logically use it to its fullest. The shit I do usually involves a lot of sounds. Hundreds of samples, extensive editing/chopping, etc. So I welcome a program that has all kinds of features that may seem useless at first.



Pro Tools v. Cubase
Can we talk a little more about this?

Pro Tools Digi 002 Rack: ~$1,200
Cubase SX3 (~$600) + MOTU 828mkII (~$750): $1,350

The price difference doesn't make a strong argument either way. The other concerns I voiced were addressed, in part, by a lot of the above posts. It seems Pro Tools MIDI capability has improved, which is a good sign. Does anyone have Digi 002 and experience problems with extensive use of plugins and softsamples?

I don't really have any attachment to the old gear, the Akai S3000XL and the Yamaha QY700, so I don't mind leaving them as antiques of a beatmaking past.


Sample Editing
What do you all use to normalize, edit, chop, de-click, EQ samples?
I have Bias Peak already, and it seems okay. Not too impressive. It seems like there were two voices (bubor0ck and Supergood) in favor of Recylce. Any other thoughts on Recylce? How does it compare to Peak? Other programs that you prefer?


Plug Ins
UAD-1 Ultra sounds good, and I would imagine not too many folks here own it. It's roughly $1,200 (ouch). Oldnewsoul as well as many others mentioned Waves. The Waves Diamond bundle runs about $2,800. Fuck. I'd like to buy one of these two packages. Seriously, I was about to drop $3,000 on the analog LA-2A, so if I can get it digitally for a third of the cost and put the rest towards other outboard gear, that would be nice.


Mixes
The only mentions have been Bias Deck, Pro Tools, and Garage Band. I've used Deck for several mixes and am slightly frustrated with a few of it's functions. I'm sure Pro Tools would be easier, so that may be be a selling point for me. What else are you folks using?



Again, thanks for all the thoughts. I appreciate it.

~Bam

 

[bonzaisk8]

Sample Editing
What do you all use to normalize, edit, chop, de-click, EQ samples?
I have Bias Peak already, and it seems okay. Not too impressive. It seems like there were two voices (bubor0ck and Supergood) in favor of Recylce. Any other thoughts on Recylce? How does it compare to Peak? Other programs that you prefer?

seriously holmes, Sound Forge, and the waves bundle are probably the best software components out there for sample editing, sound engineering, EQ's, reverbs, delays, and yes, mastering.

you can read more about it here: WAVES PLATINUM though, you probably have been doing your research on this anyway.

it's pretty steep in price but we can talk about this by PM if you'd like.






Mixes
i've use sound forge for mixes and it works great.

cheers.

 

[Bambouche]

it's pretty steep in price but we can talk about this by PM if you'd like.

Believe me, I tried:

This user is not accepting private messages.


(page me)

 

[Supergood]

For de-clicking/vinyl restoration, I've been very satisfied with the Waves Restoration VST plug-in suite. It has made some of my most rinked, VG- condition LPs sound VG+.





IMO, ReCycle is great because it makes sample-cutting so easy if integrated with the stellar Reason program...so much so that it feels like cheating! Here's the run-down:





1- import AIFF/WAV into ReCycle


2- ReCycle cuts the AIFF/WAV according to where the beats/any loud sound occur in the sample


3- export the cut AIFF/WAV from ReCycle as a Rex2 file


4- import the Rex2 file into Reason's DrRex sample player


5- play each of the cuts of the Rex2 sample from different keys on your MIDI controller





SG








Sample Editing


What do you all use to normalize, edit, chop, de-click, EQ samples?


I have Bias Peak already, and it seems okay. Not too impressive. It seems like there were two voices (bubor0ck and Supergood) in favor of Recylce. Any other thoughts on Recylce? How does it compare to Peak? Other programs that you prefer?

 

[Bambouche]

Shit it up and running. My first post from my new digs. BIG SCREENin' it and shit! Holler!

 

[bonzaisk8]

congrats. thats some dope equip. you're sittin on mayne.

have fun!

peas and beans up in this beeich.

ps. did you say pm's cannot be sent to me?

 

[Bambouche]

ps. did you say pm's cannot be sent to me?

yea, you aren't allowing PMs right now.
(you know, about that other thing)

 

[bonzaisk8]

man, my whole mail account is fuct. i can't even send shyte either.





anyway, hit me up with a reply here: kg@funkdc.com so i can in turn write what I had written.





cheers.





pick of the night, Samuel Adams Summer Ale.

 

[mcdee]

Cubase got the prosoniq timestretch algoritm, and that shit is far superiour to anything else on the market. Thats another selling point for Cubase if u like timestretching that is!

Sample Editing


What do you all use to normalize, edit, chop, de-click, EQ samples?


I have Bias Peak already, and it seems okay. Not too impressive. It seems like there were two voices (bubor0ck and Supergood) in favor of Recylce. Any other thoughts on Recylce? How does it compare to Peak? Other programs that you prefer?

I'd like to disagree with kidgusto here, Wavelab is superiour to Soundforge in my book. You got "Audio Montage" which is a simple multitrack feature, but powerful for changing snares in breaks and such, and just combining breaks and shit in general. Correcting sloppy drummers... You get the idea. I think this is just as important as eq, noise reduction and such. And you can assign your own shortcuts I got one where I just press my own combination of keys and it performs a bunch of things to make a lovely fake 12bit sound! And chopping is fast as hell.. Just make a selection, and drag it out to the grey area, and u got a new file to work with. I still prefer Recycle for Chopping complete breaks tho. But when you just need a couple of sounds I do it directly in wavelab! The waveform replacement feature in wavelab is top notch for fixin pops and clicks in sounds. I use the waves plugins for the rest, crackle, hum and noise removal.

Plug Ins


UAD-1 Ultra sounds good, and I would imagine not too many folks here own it. It's roughly $1,200 (ouch). Oldnewsoul as well as many others mentioned Waves. The Waves Diamond bundle runs about $2,800. Fuck. I'd like to buy one of these two packages. Seriously, I was about to drop $3,000 on the analog LA-2A, so if I can get it digitally for a third of the cost and put the rest towards other outboard gear, that would be nice.

I just use Waves for reverb, and sometimes compression and limiting. But to be honest I dont like the rest of their plugins that much. Theres better alternatives imo.





Good sounding compressor:

Fucking incredible EQ (You seriously need this one):

For filtering basslines:

Just getting a little bit more crunch on your samples part 1:

Just getting a little bit more crunch on your samples part 2:

 

[per0]

Logic. Plain and simple.

I had this hooked w my MPC, 950 and 2000 no issues. I recorded midi info back and forth via the MPC. I chopped samples and sent them back and forth to my PC via Recycle! HD recording into Logic.

However, if you've got a daul G5, seriously consider Logic as Apple bought out Emagic a while ago, and it's like having a built in one Hardware / software combo that works real well. It's tight.

Go and check it at an Apple store. I've seen recently they're selling Logic Express for AUS$500 w a keyboard. Bet it''s even cheaper in the good ole US of A! I beleive it supports up to 128 audio tracks etc....

 

[per0]

Oh yeah, check out "Apple Loops", it's own built in Recycle! equivalent.

 

[bonzaisk8]

Cubase got the prosoniq timestretch algoritm, and that shit is far superiour to anything else on the market. Thats another selling point for Cubase if u like timestretching that is!

Sample Editing
What do you all use to normalize, edit, chop, de-click, EQ samples?
I have Bias Peak already, and it seems okay. Not too impressive. It seems like there were two voices (bubor0ck and Supergood) in favor of Recylce. Any other thoughts on Recylce? How does it compare to Peak? Other programs that you prefer?

I'd like to disagree with kidgusto here, Wavelab is superiour to Soundforge in my book. You got "Audio Montage" which is a simple multitrack feature, but powerful for changing snares in breaks and such, and just combining breaks and shit in general. Correcting sloppy drummers... You get the idea. I think this is just as important as eq, noise reduction and such. And you can assign your own shortcuts I got one where I just press my own combination of keys and it performs a bunch of things to make a lovely fake 12bit sound! And chopping is fast as hell.. Just make a selection, and drag it out to the grey area, and u got a new file to work with. I still prefer Recycle for Chopping complete breaks tho. But when you just need a couple of sounds I do it directly in wavelab! The waveform replacement feature in wavelab is top notch for fixin pops and clicks in sounds. I use the waves plugins for the rest, crackle, hum and noise removal.

Plug Ins
UAD-1 Ultra sounds good, and I would imagine not too many folks here own it. It's roughly $1,200 (ouch). Oldnewsoul as well as many others mentioned Waves. The Waves Diamond bundle runs about $2,800. Fuck. I'd like to buy one of these two packages. Seriously, I was about to drop $3,000 on the analog LA-2A, so if I can get it digitally for a third of the cost and put the rest towards other outboard gear, that would be nice.

I just use Waves for reverb, and sometimes compression and limiting. But to be honest I dont like the rest of their plugins that much. Theres better alternatives imo.

Good sounding compressor:

Fucking incredible EQ (You seriously need this one):

For filtering basslines:

Just getting a little bit more crunch on your samples part 1:

Just getting a little bit more crunch on your samples part 2:

Nice. "Audio Montage" sounds pretty cool. I'd like to check that out. Though, everything else that you stated I have in other kinds of plug in's that I use along with Sound Forge. I'd still say it all comes down to preference. Native Instruments bundles are dope too.

holluer.

 

[mcdee]

Nice. "Audio Montage" sounds pretty cool. I'd like to check that out. Though, everything else that you stated I have in other kinds of plug in's that I use along with Sound Forge. I'd still say it all comes down to preference. Native Instruments bundles are dope too.

holluer.

Yeah, I've rocked both. All comes down to preference I guess as you say... and Soundforge does have a feature I miss sometimes in Wavelab. When its hard to hear where the correct loop points are... In soundforge you can move a selection without moving the sound inside it... Just select a proper 2 bar loop or whatever where its pretty easy to hear it and move it to the hard part. You cant do that in Wavelab, well maybe you can but I dont know how to do it atleast! If anyone knows, let me know. I just memorize the duration of the loop now, but it would be easier to just move the damn selection!

 

[silvertone]

I too have ditched the MPC in favor of the computer quickness.

I am surprised that nobody here has actually mentioned an endorsed a standalone softsampler... as most of the sample players (rex, ect.) are complete bullshit. If you have a whoop whoop supercomputer, I would seriously consider NI's Kontakt sampler. (deleted unnessasary name drop) hipped me to it a while back, and I gotta say man, if you got the power to run it (which you most certainly do) consider it. You can run it in conjunction with any sequncer (ProTools, Logic, Cubase) and it is WAY more powerful than what you will get anywhere else. I switched.

In the debate of what to (not) get, I would say this...
Pro Tools is an industry standard for a reason. It is because the Mix/Pro systems are hardware based, and take all the processing off the machine. In the lower systems (Digi, MBox) you are hosting all the plugins on your processor... and there are much better / efficient systems. If I were to start over, I would run Logic, but as I am in between records, Im kinda stuck with it for now. For the same price as a Digi rack or mixer system, you can by a Pro DA converter which will sound WAY better than protools and the software package of your choice... all of which have thier strengths and weaknesses.

If you are in the mood to blow cash, I would also consider a really good keybaord controller. I bought the Novation X 49. It is shit-hot, and feels WAY better than any of the consumer pro crap (insert m-audio, oxygen ect) and has a built in programmable synth and soundcard for on-the-road action... plus the DA in it sounds as good as any of the entry level soundcards, it also has templates for just about every program, so you dont have to spend days making midi patchlists that corespond to filters ect.

Anyways, I would give this some serious consideration... With your machine, you would have a fully expanded Z-class sampler, which could run any format (AKAIs, Wavs, Rex's) in any program (including LIVE!). The editing / sample mapping is incredible.

My current setup...(867 G4 Laptop w. external drive though a 20G's API Mixbus with Dynaudio Monitoring).. for which I can aslo use for mastering and preamps/recoridng shits.
Everyday steez: Protools w. Kontakt and midi keys for writing tracks / mixing down / project mastering
Playing Shit Live: Ableton live running Kontakt for live kits / triggering sequences (so you can play samples from the keybaord while running mixed sequences and what not).

Oh yeah, PS: the only plugs that I would use in substitution of real mix hardware are these : Waves L2&3 Limters, Sonalksis EQ, PSP Vintage Warmer for "Crunch" and the Sony Oxford stuff...

 

[Bambouche]

If you have a whoop whoop supercomputer, I would seriously consider NI's Kontakt sampler. (deleted unnessasary name drop) hipped me to it a while back, and I gotta say man, if you got the power to run it (which you most certainly do) consider it. You can run it in conjunction with any sequncer (ProTools, Logic, Cubase) and it is WAY more powerful than what you will get anywhere else. I switched.

Actually, I was leaning towards the Kontakt for the "whoop whoop", as it seems best suited from what I've read. And thanks for the other thoughts. Man, so much shit to read...
(not in this post, but out in the .pdf pamphlet world)

 

[mcdee]

Yeah I am using Cubase with Kontakt myself, quite funny timestretch functions that sounds like ass but in a unique way thats pretty useful from time to time, especially with those nerdy blazing downtempo type joints. Have used it for a good 2 or 3 years now, but I still use my Asr when I need the internal FX, and I use my Emax when I need those 12-bit drums. I have nothing but love for Kontakt, extremely easy to use aswell. Back when I decided to try it I installed both Halion and Kontakt and I learnt Kontakt so much faster. The interface is real powerful and everything makes sense! Havent used any newer Halion, but the first version was a mess IMO.

 

[bonzaisk8]

yeah, almost all of the Native Instrument bundle pieces are incredible.














now a question arised last night for me while simmering on the cypher. when questioning machine stabilily, how do the Mac, verse rhe PC hold up? Although, this can entirely be debated in another thread. but i'm sure short answers would be welcomed, and this seems relative enough, since bam and I now cant share any software to eachother because of our diff OS's.





My thoughts on this pretty much still go to the Mac for machine stability. Mainly because from what I've heard ( i could be wrong) Mac still manufactures it's own pieces in the CPU box itself i.e motherboard,processor, hard drive and what have you. Whereas Microsoft outsources up the waa-zoo, hence making the Microsoft box less stabile.





Just that alone makes sense why people in the industry go to Mac's. But the thing about Mac's is that every eff'ing piece of software or component is more expensive than Windows products. So for the audio industry to have this is fine cause they got the loot. But for the bedroom rockers, shit, I mon don't have that much money right now.....not to mention that I spend a lot more of my money on external analog shyte (and rackords).





But this is where the clencher clenches. It now comes down to proprietry verses arbitrarity (Is that even a word?). Meaning that this puts Mac in propriatary zone i.e. compatibility with other operating systems is slim pickings. But since Microsoft licenses their OS usage to other software and hardware manufacturers. This allows for some competitive business ventures with various different companies to take place, causing the price to go down. So wait does that mean IBM is actually trying to work a monopoly over here?








but yeah anyway, my windows box has crashed before, it sux, but there was reason why (sometimes). One thing though, it doesn't always happen and it's never so bad that it eff's your whole project up. It just takes 5 minutes more to re-boot. Just make sure we always save like a trained monkey playing his accordian.





damn, that was not a short answer was it....





anyway, peas to the masses.





and dope discussion y'all.

















and now, time to get back to ze beats.

 

[mumbosauce]

I too have ditched the MPC in favor of the computer quickness.

I am surprised that nobody here has actually mentioned an endorsed a standalone softsampler... as most of the sample players (rex, ect.) are complete bullshit. If you have a whoop whoop supercomputer, I would seriously consider NI's Kontakt sampler. (deleted unnessasary name drop) hipped me to it a while back, and I gotta say man, if you got the power to run it (which you most certainly do) consider it. You can run it in conjunction with any sequncer (ProTools, Logic, Cubase) and it is WAY more powerful than what you will get anywhere else. I switched.

honestly if you get logic unlock the exs24. shit is straight. plus you can import .rex files into it so it automatically lays out the chopped samples onto keys. Then just import the .midi of the .rex loop into the arrange window and bam you got it loaded with the groove of the orig and you can move the peices around or add new peices. Logic is a great application in my book. I mean it is just soo powerful and once you get used to using it you don't need anything else. I have heard nothing but good things about NI Kontakt. But honestly the exs24 in Logic is really enough for most people.

Reason is a great app IMHO for getting ideas down quick if you don't know CubaseSX or Logic or PT. Reason allows you to drop in and make edits with the quickness. Basically since I sold all my gear I just use Reason for laying out quick ideas. If I like an idea enough then I bring everything into logic.

I have been hearing nothing but good things lately about Nuendo. Its audio editing capabilities are up there.

 

[rpm]

i used to use gigastudio ... but since '03 i've been using
exs24 and logic on the pc for everything i do.
big up to rob for the time taken to explain this isht.