ENGLAND
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@Brain: Right I see that now.
But many of these kids rioting aren't immigrants. They were born there. They are British. For many, the only ties they have are their parents and where they came from. It's not because they don't know how to integrate into British culture. They are British culture...
Saba wouldn't being saying this is due to multiculture bullshit if he saw a bunch of white youths from different white background countries. He'd probably just call them poor and they should get a job.
But many of these kids rioting aren't immigrants. They were born there. They are British. For many, the only ties they have are their parents and where they came from. It's not because they don't know how to integrate into British culture. They are British culture...
Saba wouldn't being saying this is due to multiculture bullshit if he saw a bunch of white youths from different white background countries. He'd probably just call them poor and they should get a job.
DOR said
Brain: Right I see that now.
But many of these kids rioting aren't immigrants. They were born there. They are British. For many, the only ties they have are their parents and where they came from. It's not because they don't know how to integrate into British culture. They are British culture...
...just not acknowledged as such.
Brain: Right I see that now.But many of these kids rioting aren't immigrants. They were born there. They are British. For many, the only ties they have are their parents and where they came from. It's not because they don't know how to integrate into British culture. They are British culture...
...just not acknowledged as such.
DOR saidBrain: Right I see that now.
But many of these kids rioting aren't immigrants. They were born there. They are British. For many, the only ties they have are their parents and where they came from. It's not because they don't know how to integrate into British culture. They are British culture...
Saba wouldn't being saying this is due to multiculture bullshit if he saw a bunch of white youths from different white background countries. He'd probably just call them poor and they should get a job.
But few of them are assimilated and few of them make an attempt to assimilate, because the country accomodates them. For the most part the Russians and Poles know that to get ahead you have to assimilate. And there are likley fewer services directed at Russian and Polish immigrants as opposed to the "brown" ones (your term). They do nothing to prepare new citizens for succeeding in a western culture - where they now live, and just put them on the dole and educate them enough to fill the lowest jobs. Its bigotryall the same.
Brain: Right I see that now.But many of these kids rioting aren't immigrants. They were born there. They are British. For many, the only ties they have are their parents and where they came from. It's not because they don't know how to integrate into British culture. They are British culture...
Saba wouldn't being saying this is due to multiculture bullshit if he saw a bunch of white youths from different white background countries. He'd probably just call them poor and they should get a job.
But few of them are assimilated and few of them make an attempt to assimilate, because the country accomodates them. For the most part the Russians and Poles know that to get ahead you have to assimilate. And there are likley fewer services directed at Russian and Polish immigrants as opposed to the "brown" ones (your term). They do nothing to prepare new citizens for succeeding in a western culture - where they now live, and just put them on the dole and educate them enough to fill the lowest jobs. Its bigotryall the same.
DocMcCoy said:Brian said:There's quite a distinction between being born British and having your entire family and previous generations born and raised in public housing.
I'm both, so if you'd care to explain that distinction to me...
Even the BNP can see this is a false distinction.
I'm both, so if you'd care to explain that distinction to me...
Even the BNP can see this is a false distinction.
DocMcCoy said:Brian said:There's quite a distinction between being born British and having your entire family and previous generations born and raised in public housing.
I'm both, so if you'd care to explain that distinction to me...bassie covered my point above.
I'm both, so if you'd care to explain that distinction to me...bassie covered my point above.
Brian said:There's quite a distinction between being born British and having your entire family and previous generations born and raised in public housing.
Brian, as a first gen American, I understand what you mean in that my parents have always been reluctant to accept the social mores of the culture their own cildren were born into. Creates a lot of friction for us at times.
However, just because I am a person of color and seldom represented in politics and media does not give me license to blatantly disregard my community and general public safety. Allowing poverty and disenfranchisement to justify burning down working-class businesses perpetuates the notion that the lower rungs of society are primitive and incapable of effective discourse. Being poor is not an excuse for behaving badly.
Brian, as a first gen American, I understand what you mean in that my parents have always been reluctant to accept the social mores of the culture their own cildren were born into. Creates a lot of friction for us at times.
However, just because I am a person of color and seldom represented in politics and media does not give me license to blatantly disregard my community and general public safety. Allowing poverty and disenfranchisement to justify burning down working-class businesses perpetuates the notion that the lower rungs of society are primitive and incapable of effective discourse. Being poor is not an excuse for behaving badly.
Brian said
ocMcCoy said:Brian said:There's quite a distinction between being born British and having your entire family and previous generations born and raised in public housing.
I'm both, so if you'd care to explain that distinction to me...bassie covered my point above.
In which case, I agree with you.
ocMcCoy said:Brian said:There's quite a distinction between being born British and having your entire family and previous generations born and raised in public housing.I'm both, so if you'd care to explain that distinction to me...bassie covered my point above.
In which case, I agree with you.
Manchester looks grim...
All the cops down in London...
I read on teh webz that that the firms are now getting in on the act - The youf's started it, the firms are organising and raising the stakes- is this the case or just Sky-news type scare mongering?
All the cops down in London...
I read on teh webz that that the firms are now getting in on the act - The youf's started it, the firms are organising and raising the stakes- is this the case or just Sky-news type scare mongering?
SportCasual said:Okem saidarcus Howe is an idiot.
LOL, he's just playing Devil's Advocate.
But Okem, as one of Soulstrut's foremost purveyors of ghetto reality porn (on either side of the Atlantic) it surprises me that you have such a reaction.It wasn't in reaction to what he said in that clip, I was speaking more generally.
The mere fact that Howe is still a go to face when black British youth are in the news is just sad. Dude is not ghetto. Dude lives in a world of his own, and is beyond disconnected.
-
There's a good documentary in which Darcus' son attempts to become a rapper. Unfortunately kid is utterly clueless, and the focus of the documentary switches to a story about this rather lost youth. But in the telling of that story, his father is revealed as a grade a arsehole. (it's not ghetto reality porn though, so I'm not sure if I recommend anyone watch it..)
arcus Howe is an idiot. LOL, he's just playing Devil's Advocate.
But Okem, as one of Soulstrut's foremost purveyors of ghetto reality porn (on either side of the Atlantic) it surprises me that you have such a reaction.It wasn't in reaction to what he said in that clip, I was speaking more generally.
The mere fact that Howe is still a go to face when black British youth are in the news is just sad. Dude is not ghetto. Dude lives in a world of his own, and is beyond disconnected.
-
There's a good documentary in which Darcus' son attempts to become a rapper. Unfortunately kid is utterly clueless, and the focus of the documentary switches to a story about this rather lost youth. But in the telling of that story, his father is revealed as a grade a arsehole. (it's not ghetto reality porn though, so I'm not sure if I recommend anyone watch it..)
sabadabada saidOR saidBrain: Right I see that now.
But many of these kids rioting aren't immigrants. They were born there. They are British. For many, the only ties they have are their parents and where they came from. It's not because they don't know how to integrate into British culture. They are British culture...
Saba wouldn't being saying this is due to multiculture bullshit if he saw a bunch of white youths from different white background countries. He'd probably just call them poor and they should get a job.
But few of them are assimilated and few of them make an attempt to assimilate, because the country accomodates them. For the most part the Russians and Poles know that to get ahead you have to assimilate. And there are likley fewer services directed at Russian and Polish immigrants as opposed to the "brown" ones (your term). They do nothing to prepare new citizens for succeeding in a western culture - where they now live, and just put them on the dole and educate them enough to fill the lowest jobs. Its bigotryall the same.
This point doesn't go very far when you leave colonization out of the picture.
OR saidBrain: Right I see that now.But many of these kids rioting aren't immigrants. They were born there. They are British. For many, the only ties they have are their parents and where they came from. It's not because they don't know how to integrate into British culture. They are British culture...
Saba wouldn't being saying this is due to multiculture bullshit if he saw a bunch of white youths from different white background countries. He'd probably just call them poor and they should get a job.
But few of them are assimilated and few of them make an attempt to assimilate, because the country accomodates them. For the most part the Russians and Poles know that to get ahead you have to assimilate. And there are likley fewer services directed at Russian and Polish immigrants as opposed to the "brown" ones (your term). They do nothing to prepare new citizens for succeeding in a western culture - where they now live, and just put them on the dole and educate them enough to fill the lowest jobs. Its bigotryall the same.
This point doesn't go very far when you leave colonization out of the picture.
sabadabada saidOR saidBrain: Right I see that now.
But many of these kids rioting aren't immigrants. They were born there. They are British. For many, the only ties they have are their parents and where they came from. It's not because they don't know how to integrate into British culture. They are British culture...
Saba wouldn't being saying this is due to multiculture bullshit if he saw a bunch of white youths from different white background countries. He'd probably just call them poor and they should get a job.
But few of them are assimilated and few of them make an attempt to assimilate, because the country accomodates them. For the most part the Russians and Poles know that to get ahead you have to assimilate. And there are likley fewer services directed at Russian and Polish immigrants as opposed to the "brown" ones (your term). They do nothing to prepare new citizens for succeeding in a western culture - where they now live, and just put them on the dole and educate them enough to fill the lowest jobs. Its bigotryall the same.
Saba - Western Culture? Maybe you mean Northern Hemisphere? But that puts Poles and Ukrainians in a tricky category, and as Bassie mentioned, neatly sidesteps the issue of the African diaspora that was created in London, among other places.
But I am down with George Bush Jr's campaign against the soft bigotry of low expectation. This shit has made the UK an atrophied nation with a pathetic outlook for the future.
OR saidBrain: Right I see that now.But many of these kids rioting aren't immigrants. They were born there. They are British. For many, the only ties they have are their parents and where they came from. It's not because they don't know how to integrate into British culture. They are British culture...
Saba wouldn't being saying this is due to multiculture bullshit if he saw a bunch of white youths from different white background countries. He'd probably just call them poor and they should get a job.
But few of them are assimilated and few of them make an attempt to assimilate, because the country accomodates them. For the most part the Russians and Poles know that to get ahead you have to assimilate. And there are likley fewer services directed at Russian and Polish immigrants as opposed to the "brown" ones (your term). They do nothing to prepare new citizens for succeeding in a western culture - where they now live, and just put them on the dole and educate them enough to fill the lowest jobs. Its bigotryall the same.
Saba - Western Culture? Maybe you mean Northern Hemisphere? But that puts Poles and Ukrainians in a tricky category, and as Bassie mentioned, neatly sidesteps the issue of the African diaspora that was created in London, among other places.
But I am down with George Bush Jr's campaign against the soft bigotry of low expectation. This shit has made the UK an atrophied nation with a pathetic outlook for the future.
i don't think there is much of a difference ultimately. the catalyst for the original riot in tottenham north london was the murder of mark duggan by police. the reason it has spread all over the country is because this generation of youth know they have no social or economic prospects under a corrupt government detached from real life. they are just saying fuck it and now all the opportunist little shits have joined in. i would put money on this happening in the US soon.
Okem saidude is not ghetto. Dude lives in a world of his own, and is beyond disconnected.
ha, don;t make me post up your mailing address - it's a vicarage innit? I know that Howe can be grating, it's part of his shtick, but how can he be more disconnected than, say, someone like you? Not a dig at you personally, but just sayin. He's like your Yaphet Kotto - good family background that contrasts with his real world experiences. He can speak on it, and should.
ude is not ghetto. Dude lives in a world of his own, and is beyond disconnected. ha, don;t make me post up your mailing address - it's a vicarage innit? I know that Howe can be grating, it's part of his shtick, but how can he be more disconnected than, say, someone like you? Not a dig at you personally, but just sayin. He's like your Yaphet Kotto - good family background that contrasts with his real world experiences. He can speak on it, and should.
Almond said:Brian said:There's quite a distinction between being born British and having your entire family and previous generations born and raised in public housing.
Brian, as a first gen American, I understand what you mean in that my parents have always been reluctant to accept the social mores of the culture their own cildren were born into. Creates a lot of friction for us at times.
There's quite a difference between integration in America and the UK. America has a lot more economic opportunity and immigrant groups are famous for being entrepreneurs based around culture specific businesses which in turn either helps with integration in the future or allows communities to be self-sufficient. However, when minority cultures or races or whatever the fuck immigrate with either a lack of skill to start their own businesses or seek employment or a lack of capital you run into a problem. This problem is exasperated by lifetime welfare support.
Brian, as a first gen American, I understand what you mean in that my parents have always been reluctant to accept the social mores of the culture their own cildren were born into. Creates a lot of friction for us at times.
There's quite a difference between integration in America and the UK. America has a lot more economic opportunity and immigrant groups are famous for being entrepreneurs based around culture specific businesses which in turn either helps with integration in the future or allows communities to be self-sufficient. However, when minority cultures or races or whatever the fuck immigrate with either a lack of skill to start their own businesses or seek employment or a lack of capital you run into a problem. This problem is exasperated by lifetime welfare support.
I don't see where I excused any of this. I'm just saying what the fuck do you expect when you throw people in a shithole and hope they're pacified by some bullshit.
i don't think there is much of a difference ultimately. the catalyst for the original riot in tottenham north london was the murder of mark duggan by police. the reason it has spread all over the country is because this generation of youth know they have no social or economic prospects under a corrupt government detached from real life. they are just saying fuck it and now all the opportunist little shits have joined in. i would put money on this happening in the US soon.
but, but, but, riots are bad !
bassie said:sabadabada saidOR saidBrain: Right I see that now.
But many of these kids rioting aren't immigrants. They were born there. They are British. For many, the only ties they have are their parents and where they came from. It's not because they don't know how to integrate into British culture. They are British culture...
Saba wouldn't being saying this is due to multiculture bullshit if he saw a bunch of white youths from different white background countries. He'd probably just call them poor and they should get a job.
But few of them are assimilated and few of them make an attempt to assimilate, because the country accomodates them. For the most part the Russians and Poles know that to get ahead you have to assimilate. And there are likley fewer services directed at Russian and Polish immigrants as opposed to the "brown" ones (your term). They do nothing to prepare new citizens for succeeding in a western culture - where they now live, and just put them on the dole and educate them enough to fill the lowest jobs. Its bigotryall the same.
This point doesn't go very far when you leave colonization out of the picture.While it's clearly not as bad, I don't think it's wrong to argue that it's a continuation of colonization.
OR saidBrain: Right I see that now.But many of these kids rioting aren't immigrants. They were born there. They are British. For many, the only ties they have are their parents and where they came from. It's not because they don't know how to integrate into British culture. They are British culture...
Saba wouldn't being saying this is due to multiculture bullshit if he saw a bunch of white youths from different white background countries. He'd probably just call them poor and they should get a job.
But few of them are assimilated and few of them make an attempt to assimilate, because the country accomodates them. For the most part the Russians and Poles know that to get ahead you have to assimilate. And there are likley fewer services directed at Russian and Polish immigrants as opposed to the "brown" ones (your term). They do nothing to prepare new citizens for succeeding in a western culture - where they now live, and just put them on the dole and educate them enough to fill the lowest jobs. Its bigotryall the same.
This point doesn't go very far when you leave colonization out of the picture.While it's clearly not as bad, I don't think it's wrong to argue that it's a continuation of colonization.
Russians assimilate? Eh? More than West Indians? More than South Asians? Where? In Brooklyn? Really?
Plaese to stop with the baseless "I've got a hunch..." social analysis. If you're going to throw some shit out there like that, bring some facts. Otherwise STFU.
Plaese to stop with the baseless "I've got a hunch..." social analysis. If you're going to throw some shit out there like that, bring some facts. Otherwise STFU.
