Ginger Baker's bitter old man Rolling Stone Interview
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Rockadelic said:He's old, sick, poor and played the game of life very badly.
If that doesn't make one cranky, what could?
I dunno, by most accounts he wasn't much different when he was young, healthy and flush.
I'm sure he has a good side too, but I'm not sure how many people get to see it.
I would love to talk to him about his time in Nigeria, though, even if he was insulting me the whole time.
If that doesn't make one cranky, what could?
I dunno, by most accounts he wasn't much different when he was young, healthy and flush.
I'm sure he has a good side too, but I'm not sure how many people get to see it.
I would love to talk to him about his time in Nigeria, though, even if he was insulting me the whole time.
LaserWolf said
hil Specter
It does matter.
Might not make their music any worse, but it sure as hell doesn't make it better.
what musician's personality made their music better? maybe there are a few but i am having a hard time coming up with names. cannonball adderly maybe...duke ellington...bootsy
hil SpecterIt does matter.
Might not make their music any worse, but it sure as hell doesn't make it better.
what musician's personality made their music better? maybe there are a few but i am having a hard time coming up with names. cannonball adderly maybe...duke ellington...bootsy
Meh...Cream is pretty overrated and as far as jazz-influenced british rock drummers go, Mitch Mitchell was way better.
crabmongerfunk said:LaserWolf saidhil Specter
It does matter.
Might not make their music any worse, but it sure as hell doesn't make it better.
what musician's personality made their music better? maybe there are a few but i am having a hard time coming up with names. cannonball adderly maybe...duke ellington...bootsy
3 good examples right there^.
Charles Bradley.
Pete Seeger.
Biz.
Johnny Cash.
Here is one for right in the middle, Nina Simone, I can't separate her personality from her music, she often hated her American audiences (and America) but she intensely felt everything she did.
hil SpecterIt does matter.
Might not make their music any worse, but it sure as hell doesn't make it better.
what musician's personality made their music better? maybe there are a few but i am having a hard time coming up with names. cannonball adderly maybe...duke ellington...bootsy
3 good examples right there^.
Charles Bradley.
Pete Seeger.
Biz.
Johnny Cash.
Here is one for right in the middle, Nina Simone, I can't separate her personality from her music, she often hated her American audiences (and America) but she intensely felt everything she did.
The_Hook_Up said:Meh...Cream is pretty overrated and as far as jazz-influenced british rock drummers go, Mitch Mitchell was way better.
Seems like all of Bakers projects were almost great.
Don't underrate Charlie Watts just because be is understated and a Stone.
Watch some of the recent live clips.
Jagger entertains, everyone knows and loves the songs, Charlie holds the whole thing together and makes it music.
Instrumentally, he (and maybe the hired guns) are the only bright spot on the stage. Plus he is really old.
Seems like all of Bakers projects were almost great.
Don't underrate Charlie Watts just because be is understated and a Stone.
Watch some of the recent live clips.
Jagger entertains, everyone knows and loves the songs, Charlie holds the whole thing together and makes it music.
Instrumentally, he (and maybe the hired guns) are the only bright spot on the stage. Plus he is really old.
Sometimes the Strut reminds me of this scene:
[media]//www.youtube.com/embed/fOyw6Q8qWpM[/media]
[media]//www.youtube.com/embed/fOyw6Q8qWpM[/media]
crabmongerfunk said:duder, i say it doesn't matter at all. other musical geniuses who happen to have been unrepentant, world class assholes:
-miles davis
-yusef lateef
-buddy rich
-ben webster
-james brown
-elis regina
-donald fagen/walter becker
-jaco pastorious
-chuck berry
-ike turner
-tommy dorsey
-kanye west (?)
add on..
Don't mind if I do.
Stan Getz...notoriously ill- tempered and unpleasant. British jazz musicians hated playing with him. A general feeling of 'How can such a bastard play such beautiful music?'
Georgie Fame...ditto. Stories are legion of him being nasty and very difficult to get on with.
-miles davis
-yusef lateef
-buddy rich
-ben webster
-james brown
-elis regina
-donald fagen/walter becker
-jaco pastorious
-chuck berry
-ike turner
-tommy dorsey
-kanye west (?)
add on..
Don't mind if I do.
Stan Getz...notoriously ill- tempered and unpleasant. British jazz musicians hated playing with him. A general feeling of 'How can such a bastard play such beautiful music?'
Georgie Fame...ditto. Stories are legion of him being nasty and very difficult to get on with.
crabmongerfunk said:duder, i say it doesn't matter at all. other musical geniuses who happen to have been unrepentant, world class assholes:
-miles davis
-yusef lateef
-buddy rich
-ben webster
-james brown
-elis regina
-donald fagen/walter becker
-jaco pastorious
-chuck berry
-ike turner
-tommy dorsey
-kanye west (?)
add on..
Yusef Lateef? I always thought he was a pretty humble soul. Please tell ...
-miles davis
-yusef lateef
-buddy rich
-ben webster
-james brown
-elis regina
-donald fagen/walter becker
-jaco pastorious
-chuck berry
-ike turner
-tommy dorsey
-kanye west (?)
add on..
Yusef Lateef? I always thought he was a pretty humble soul. Please tell ...
tabira said:
Yusef Lateef? I always thought he was a pretty humble soul. Please tell ...
maybe he's mellowed bu i have heard stories. clare fischer (rip) tells of how yusef invited him to a gig because he had heard his playing and wanted to collaborate. apparently, when fischer went to introduce himself yusef gave him the ice grill for being white.
more asshole geniuses:
-keith jarrett
-cosine on stan getz: i read a biography on him and man was he ever a complete sleazebag. i mean some completely depraved shit. dianne schurr, the blind jazz singer, relates a particularly troubling anecdote that i will not repea.
-chet baker - he comes across as being soft spoken and humble, but what i know of him, he was terrible to those around him
-david ruffin
Yusef Lateef? I always thought he was a pretty humble soul. Please tell ...
maybe he's mellowed bu i have heard stories. clare fischer (rip) tells of how yusef invited him to a gig because he had heard his playing and wanted to collaborate. apparently, when fischer went to introduce himself yusef gave him the ice grill for being white.
more asshole geniuses:
-keith jarrett
-cosine on stan getz: i read a biography on him and man was he ever a complete sleazebag. i mean some completely depraved shit. dianne schurr, the blind jazz singer, relates a particularly troubling anecdote that i will not repea.
-chet baker - he comes across as being soft spoken and humble, but what i know of him, he was terrible to those around him
-david ruffin
crabmongerfunk said:tabira said:
Yusef Lateef? I always thought he was a pretty humble soul. Please tell ...
maybe he's mellowed bu i have heard stories. clare fischer (rip) tells of how yusef invited him to a gig because he had heard his playing and wanted to collaborate. apparently, when fischer went to introduce himself yusef gave him the ice grill for being white.
Yusef Lateef? I always thought he was a pretty humble soul. Please tell ...
maybe he's mellowed bu i have heard stories. clare fischer (rip) tells of how yusef invited him to a gig because he had heard his playing and wanted to collaborate. apparently, when fischer went to introduce himself yusef gave him the ice grill for being white.
I read this autobiography of Ginger Baker a while ago:
He came across as a pretty difficult guy to get along with. The suggestion that he might be somewhere on the spectrum kind of makes sense.
He takes a lot of trouble to emphasize that he comes from a jazz background and that he is really a jazz drummer. I think this at least partly explains his distaste for the Rolling Stones outside of Charlie Watts, they just don't have "chops" in the way that he respects.
He came across as a pretty difficult guy to get along with. The suggestion that he might be somewhere on the spectrum kind of makes sense.
He takes a lot of trouble to emphasize that he comes from a jazz background and that he is really a jazz drummer. I think this at least partly explains his distaste for the Rolling Stones outside of Charlie Watts, they just don't have "chops" in the way that he respects.
Snapping said:I read this autobiography of Ginger Baker a while ago:
He came across as a pretty difficult guy to get along with. The suggestion that he might be somewhere on the spectrum kind of makes sense.
He takes a lot of trouble to emphasize that he comes from a jazz background and that he is really a jazz drummer. I think this at least partly explains his distaste for the Rolling Stones outside of Charley Watts, they just don't have "chops" in the way that he respects.
A "Jazz" drummer with the hubris to challenge Elvin Jones to a drum battle in the Royal Albert Hall and by all accounts got his ass handed to him.
He is better than average, but I have yet to be blown away by him, like I said above, Mitch Mitchell treaded the same territory and was better both in "chops" and imagination...then again Mitch was accompanying Jimi and Ginger had to accompany the bore merchant known as "slowhand".
He came across as a pretty difficult guy to get along with. The suggestion that he might be somewhere on the spectrum kind of makes sense.
He takes a lot of trouble to emphasize that he comes from a jazz background and that he is really a jazz drummer. I think this at least partly explains his distaste for the Rolling Stones outside of Charley Watts, they just don't have "chops" in the way that he respects.
A "Jazz" drummer with the hubris to challenge Elvin Jones to a drum battle in the Royal Albert Hall and by all accounts got his ass handed to him.
He is better than average, but I have yet to be blown away by him, like I said above, Mitch Mitchell treaded the same territory and was better both in "chops" and imagination...then again Mitch was accompanying Jimi and Ginger had to accompany the bore merchant known as "slowhand".
The_Hook_Up said:Snapping said:I read this autobiography of Ginger Baker a while ago:
He came across as a pretty difficult guy to get along with. The suggestion that he might be somewhere on the spectrum kind of makes sense.
He takes a lot of trouble to emphasize that he comes from a jazz background and that he is really a jazz drummer. I think this at least partly explains his distaste for the Rolling Stones outside of Charley Watts, they just don't have "chops" in the way that he respects.
A "Jazz" drummer with the hubris to challenge Elvin Jones to a drum battle in the Royal Albert Hall and by all accounts got his ass handed to him.
He is better than average, but I have yet to be blown away by him, like I said above, Mitch Mitchell treaded the same territory and was better both in "chops" and imagination...then again Mitch was accompanying Jimi and Ginger had to accompany the bore merchant known as "slowhand".
Hmmm.
I'm not really prepared to defend Baker's drumming skills jazz or otherwise. It's certainly worth noting that his great fame is as a rock drummer not a jazz drummer.
The most interesting parts of the book (for me) were the descriptions of his early career and the scene in London that he was part of. A lot of the musicians who became part of the rock groups came from disparate backgrounds in what had been different scenes (blues, folk, jazz, etc.). Baker clearly feels an allegiance to the jazz scene that he came up in by way of the Graham Bond Organization, and that included musicians like himself, John McLaughlin, Jack Bruce and Watts.
He also is just a contrary fusker who has also slagged off:
Jimi Hendrix: "Hendrix could play okay. But he started doing all this showman shit when he sat in with us. If I had to choose a guitarist from history, I'd pick Eric over Jimi every time."
The Beatles: "I worked with George Harrison and he was a musical moron. He didn't understand music at all. He tried to explain what he wanted, and I couldn't understand a word. The only musician was George Martin, he was The Beatles. Paul McCartney boasts that he can't read music. How can a musician boast that he can't read music?"
The aforementioned Rolling Stones: "They were like a load of little kids trying to play black blues music and playing it very badly ??? but that's what people went for, because it was naive and banal. The lack of technique and musicianship was its appeal, from the start."
And pretty much every musician from his hayday who didn't directly contribute to his fame.
He came across as a pretty difficult guy to get along with. The suggestion that he might be somewhere on the spectrum kind of makes sense.
He takes a lot of trouble to emphasize that he comes from a jazz background and that he is really a jazz drummer. I think this at least partly explains his distaste for the Rolling Stones outside of Charley Watts, they just don't have "chops" in the way that he respects.
A "Jazz" drummer with the hubris to challenge Elvin Jones to a drum battle in the Royal Albert Hall and by all accounts got his ass handed to him.
He is better than average, but I have yet to be blown away by him, like I said above, Mitch Mitchell treaded the same territory and was better both in "chops" and imagination...then again Mitch was accompanying Jimi and Ginger had to accompany the bore merchant known as "slowhand".
Hmmm.
I'm not really prepared to defend Baker's drumming skills jazz or otherwise. It's certainly worth noting that his great fame is as a rock drummer not a jazz drummer.
The most interesting parts of the book (for me) were the descriptions of his early career and the scene in London that he was part of. A lot of the musicians who became part of the rock groups came from disparate backgrounds in what had been different scenes (blues, folk, jazz, etc.). Baker clearly feels an allegiance to the jazz scene that he came up in by way of the Graham Bond Organization, and that included musicians like himself, John McLaughlin, Jack Bruce and Watts.
He also is just a contrary fusker who has also slagged off:
Jimi Hendrix: "Hendrix could play okay. But he started doing all this showman shit when he sat in with us. If I had to choose a guitarist from history, I'd pick Eric over Jimi every time."
The Beatles: "I worked with George Harrison and he was a musical moron. He didn't understand music at all. He tried to explain what he wanted, and I couldn't understand a word. The only musician was George Martin, he was The Beatles. Paul McCartney boasts that he can't read music. How can a musician boast that he can't read music?"
The aforementioned Rolling Stones: "They were like a load of little kids trying to play black blues music and playing it very badly ??? but that's what people went for, because it was naive and banal. The lack of technique and musicianship was its appeal, from the start."
And pretty much every musician from his hayday who didn't directly contribute to his fame.
Hey,
Some other musical assholes (so I've heard) are:
Marvin Gaye
Sylvester
David Axelrod
Van Dyke Parks
Brian Wilson
George Clinton
Luther Vandross
Sly Stone
Aretha Franklin
Diana Ross
As a drummer myself, I've never thought of Ginger Baker as particularly great.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Some other musical assholes (so I've heard) are:
Marvin Gaye
Sylvester
David Axelrod
Van Dyke Parks
Brian Wilson
George Clinton
Luther Vandross
Sly Stone
Aretha Franklin
Diana Ross
As a drummer myself, I've never thought of Ginger Baker as particularly great.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
crabmongerfunk said: other musical geniuses who happen to have been unrepentant, world class assholes:
-jaco pastorious
Not sure this is really fair, he had severe mental problems.
-jaco pastorious
Not sure this is really fair, he had severe mental problems.
