israel vs the sewer/refuge camp

DocMcCoy said:Flomotion said:DocMcCoy said:Worth a read.




Very interesting, People tend to follow news media that already reflects their standpoint - folks generally want ratification of their own opinions rather than analysis that challenges their perception. That's why Daily Mail readers exist.




Exactly. We like to believe we're all free thinkers immune to things like confirmation bias, but none of us are, not really.




Very cool article, and not (ironically?) without its own biases.
 
It's real easy to tell who the free thinkers are these days....they are the folks who are hated by both sides of the political divide.
 
Rockadelic said:It's real easy to tell who the free thinkers are these days....they are the folks who are hated by both sides of the political divide.




That's what I always say about the BBC - if they're upsetting both the left and the right (and they often are), then they're probably doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing.
 
DocMcCoy said:Rockadelic said:It's real easy to tell who the free thinkers are these days....they are the folks who are hated by both sides of the political divide.




That's what I always say about the BBC - if they're upsetting both the left and the right (and they often are), then they're probably doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing.




sure but the idea that "both sides" should be weighted/represented equally through these news outlets is a dangerous one.





not all views on all subjects are equally valid. decent people would have been rightly outraged had CNN sought out an al Qaeda spokesman to speak alongside a rep from the US gov't following the 9/11 attacks.





to offer another example, large swaths of my country and the politicians who represent them believe in a magic man in the sky who created the universe. to the extent that this belief informs their political positions, I don't view those political positions as deserving of equal support or air time as those based on empirical evidence and formulated with a view toward the common good.
 
Media and the journalists should never report "both sides equally". The should report the unbiased truth.
 
rootlesscosmo said:DocMcCoy said:Rockadelic said:It's real easy to tell who the free thinkers are these days....they are the folks who are hated by both sides of the political divide.




That's what I always say about the BBC - if they're upsetting both the left and the right (and they often are), then they're probably doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing.




sure but the idea that "both sides" should be weighted/represented equally through these news outlets is a dangerous one.





not all views on all subjects are equally valid. decent people would have been rightly outraged had CNN sought out an al Qaeda spokesman to speak alongside a rep from the US gov't following the 9/11 attacks.





to offer another example, large swaths of my country and the politicians who represent them believe in a magic man in the sky who created the universe. to the extent that this belief informs their political positions, I don't view those political positions as deserving of equal support or air time as those based on empirical evidence and formulated with a view toward the common good.




Yeah, I agree with your broader point, but I think that in the case of the BBC, people often confuse impartial reporting with balance. BBC News is required to report impartially under the terms of the Royal Charter (although they're constantly accused of bias from all sides of the political spectrum), but they're under no obligation to exhibit quote-unquote balance. By which I mean tin-foil hatters like Alex Jones or David Icke (a former BBC employee) don't get the same airtime to bang on about the Rothschilds and the Illuminati as a counter to the corporation's Middle East editor covering things that actually happen.





cyW83LJ.jpg
 
Rockadelic said:...The (sic) should report the unbiased truth.




Does this happen on the utopian 'gumdrop island' you mentioned earlier, too?
 
rootlesscosmo said:





not all views on all subjects are equally valid. decent people would have been rightly outraged had CNN sought out an al Qaeda spokesman to speak alongside a rep from the US gov't following the 9/11 attacks.




After 9/11 people were asking 'why do they hate us?'.


CNN reporters, govt officials, pundits were all asking.


An al Qaeda spokesperson could have answered that question for us.
 
Bon Vivant said:Duderonomy said:rootlesscosmo said:Duderonomy said:


The last march in London included numerous Jews - so there's some critical thinking going on outside of Israel, while within, the support for the current hostilities is either at 93% or 97%. This is doubtless because Israeli coverage focuses on the fatalities of just one side.







and this ridiculous remark is doubtless because you don't read Israeli coverage.




Not exhaustively no, but I had read that Israeli coverage was partisan and preferred to believe this could be behind the near unanimous support for war. There must be other reasons.




You read that?





Ok.




A more recent article saying exactly the same thing...





http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/06/gaza-israel-movement-that-dare-not-speak-its-name





Giles Fraser in Tel Aviv





This sort of self-critical vigilance is rare but understandable given the sort of reporting that goes on in the mainstream media in Israel. Most newspapers and TV channels are simply cheerleaders for the government line, offering a constant diet of fear and fallen heroes, with little evidence of any of the atrocities going on in Gaza. The problem is, ordinary Israelis have little idea what has been going on. I know so much more about what is happening in Gaza when I'm sitting in London than I do in Tel Aviv. Under this level of information manipulation, how can ordinary Israelis be expected to be critical?
Click to expand...
 
Duderonomy said:. Under this level of information manipulation, how can ordinary Israelis be expected to be critical?




WWW.SOULSTRUT.COM
 
LaserWolf said:rootlesscosmo said:





not all views on all subjects are equally valid. decent people would have been rightly outraged had CNN sought out an al Qaeda spokesman to speak alongside a rep from the US gov't following the 9/11 attacks.




After 9/11 people were asking 'why do they hate us?'.


CNN reporters, govt officials, pundits were all asking.


An al Qaeda spokesperson could have answered that question for us.




:cosine:





but there's also been a recent backlash on climate change debates... a scientist will be invited onto the news to explain some phenomenon (doo-doo do do do), and he'll find himself arguing against a politician who knows nothing about the subject.


Sadly I think an Al Qaeda spokesperson's views would in a perverse way have to be considered relevant if not valid.
 
LaserWolf said:rootlesscosmo said:





not all views on all subjects are equally valid. decent people would have been rightly outraged had CNN sought out an al Qaeda spokesman to speak alongside a rep from the US gov't following the 9/11 attacks.




After 9/11 people were asking 'why do they hate us?'.


CNN reporters, govt officials, pundits were all asking.


An al Qaeda spokesperson could have answered that question for us.




sure I agree people need to hear and understand what they're up against. but don't present it as an equally valid position. because the sheeple viewership apparently often cannot tell the difference.





al Qaeda's nihilistic racist worldview is not on par with the sort of legitimate foreign policy critique the networks should be offering airtime to. it's not "another view to be considered," especially insofar as it includes outright lies.





not all views on all subjects are equally valid.
Click to expand...
 
parallax said:Rockadelic said:...The (sic) should report the unbiased truth.




Does this happen on the utopian 'gumdrop island' you mentioned earlier, too?




Gumdrop Island has never existed....integrity in reporting the news has.
 
Rockadelic said:Media and the journalists should never report "both sides equally". The should report the unbiased truth.

journalists


There is no such thing as unbiased journalism. Never has been, never will be. Calling for such marks you as an undereducated rube with an uniformed historical viewpoint.





The journalists who are celebrated by history weren't "unbiased." The voices clamoring for "unbiased" coverage these days are uniformly right-of-center types.





Your own bias led you to conclude that Willard Romney was a sure thing in the 2012 election. Oh, I know, you're not a journalist. But what exactly makes you think you'd recognize "unbiased" coverage even if you saw it? You can't even recognize or honestly reckon with your own obvious bias.





And yes, this time I'm calling you out. You pretend you're some sort of above-the-clouds Diogenes interested only in the truth, but like any other human you've got a set of beliefs that skew your perceptions. Pretending otherwise just makes you look silly, and men your age can't afford to look silly.





:)
 
Rockadelic said:parallax said:Rockadelic said:...The (sic) should report the unbiased truth.




Does this happen on the utopian 'gumdrop island' you mentioned earlier, too?




Gumdrop Island has never existed....integrity in reporting the news has.




Name the journalists who top your list in terms of "integrity."





Are Zola and Mencken out?
 
LazarusOblong said:Rockadelic said:Media and the journalists should never report "both sides equally". The should report the unbiased truth.

journalists


There is no such thing as unbiased journalism. Never has been, never will be.




For once I agree with you but let's not confuse journalistic integrity with news bias. Bias is as often in the presentation than the content, particularly in TV and radio.. The importance we attach to a TV news story is the difference between a lead and an "and finally" piece. Same story, same facts, different impact. Writers with an obvious bias are easier to spot.
 
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