It is going to get worse. (Politics and $$$ related)

HarveyCanal said:volumen said:





guns for everyone because the elites income trump children being murdered.




Umm, you lost me bigtime there. Guns are to protect individual selves as well as to protect us collectively from tyranny.





You can't want freedom and not want individuals to be free to own their own guns.




Dude, I'm talking about proper background checks, wait periods and no extra large clips. None of these infringe on your rights. If your actually worried about having an extra large clip to defend your self against government agents then news flash, it won't help. They will just drone you into oblivion.





We are living under tyranny right now, all the civilian guns have done nothing to stop this. Your gun is not stopping NSA from collecting all your personal info and unregulated spying on innocent civilians is a form of tyranny.





Your a smart guy Harvey but your falling right into the NRA's trap in thinking a gun in your closet makes you free.
 
volumen said:HarveyCanal said:volumen said:





guns for everyone because the elites income trump children being murdered.




Umm, you lost me bigtime there. Guns are to protect individual selves as well as to protect us collectively from tyranny.





You can't want freedom and not want individuals to be free to own their own guns.




Dude, I'm talking about proper background checks, wait periods and no extra large clips. None of these infringe on your rights. If your actually worried about having an extra large clip to defend your self against government agents then news flash, it won't help. They will just drone you into oblivion.





We are living under tyranny right now, all the civilian guns have done nothing to stop this. Your gun is not stopping NSA from collecting all your personal info and unregulated spying on innocent civilians is a form of tyranny.





Your a smart guy Harvey but your falling right into the NRA's trap in thinking a gun in your closet makes you free.




You hadn't made any of those distinctions.





But hell yeah, all the guns owned by civilians in the US has slowed the tyranny of executing or throwing any more of us into prison over political reasons.





And while you say I'm aping the NRA (I'm not at all), you sound like you are aping the other end of the extreme...as if it's specifically large clips that has killed the children you mentioned.





I actually want civilians to have access to ALL weapons in existence as that what's governments (with 95% of them proven to be corrupt) have. Okay, maybe not nukes...but nobody should have those, governments included.
 
Seriously. If the purpose of 'the right to bear arms' is to defend ourselves from our government, then we should be allowed to own mortars, tear gas, tanks, flame throwers and hydrogen bombs. Otherwise all you have are guns for hunting and shooting teenagers who play their music too loud.
 
volumen said:


I'm not even sure what you are saying, but I think I agree with your general point .







My point was that capitalism is so pervasive that we can't even think/act outside of it. It's embedded in us, such that even when we try and make explicitly anti-capitalist arguments (such as your own), we often unintentionally and implicitly support/enshrine/reproduce capitalism. It seems to me that your post intended to be anti-capitalist, but you unintentionally supported a capitalist movement when you implied support for pro-marijuana.





That's no kind of knock on you, for the record. I'm sure most people who identify as anti-capitalists inadvertently reproduce capitalism multiple times a day (that goes without saying on this particular forum). And that's what's so scary about capitalism.
 
HarveyCanal said:





But hell yeah, all the guns owned by civilians in the US has slowed the tyranny of executing or throwing any more of us into prison over political reasons.




Really? Which "us"?
 
HarveyCanal said:volumen said:HarveyCanal said:volumen said:





guns for everyone because the elites income trump children being murdered.




Umm, you lost me bigtime there. Guns are to protect individual selves as well as to protect us collectively from tyranny.





You can't want freedom and not want individuals to be free to own their own guns.




Dude, I'm talking about proper background checks, wait periods and no extra large clips. None of these infringe on your rights. If your actually worried about having an extra large clip to defend your self against government agents then news flash, it won't help. They will just drone you into oblivion.





We are living under tyranny right now, all the civilian guns have done nothing to stop this. Your gun is not stopping NSA from collecting all your personal info and unregulated spying on innocent civilians is a form of tyranny.





Your a smart guy Harvey but your falling right into the NRA's trap in thinking a gun in your closet makes you free.




You hadn't made any of those distinctions.





But hell yeah, all the guns owned by civilians in the US has slowed the tyranny of executing or throwing any more of us into prison over political reasons.





And while you say I'm aping the NRA (I'm not at all), you sound like you are aping the other end of the extreme...as if it's specifically large clips that has killed the children you mentioned.





I actually want civilians to have access to ALL weapons in existence as that what's governments (with 95% of them proven to be corrupt) have. Okay, maybe not nukes...but nobody should have those, governments included.




I grew up hunting and target shooting and all my family and in-laws own guns. Not one of us sees the need to own anything other than shotguns, rifles (hunting not assault) and pistols that hold the standard amount of bullets. The only reason you need large clips is to kill people. Yes, people kill people but guns make it easier and quicker to kill people. You could not kill 20 people in a movie theater if you had to strangle them. Seriously when has an armed citizen ever stopped a shooting spree because he was allowed to carry a concealed large clip gun? Never. What rights are you preserving having a gun in your house? None. Who will you stop from taking over with that gun? Nobody. The only thing your going to succeed in doing is to go down shooting, but your still going down. Your fully entitles to own a gun and defend your self but to actually claim you are going to stop tyranny with your gun is total la la land.
 
yeah brahs zero reason why one of the first things dictatorships try to do when rising to power is to disarm the population
 
PatrickCrazy said:yeah brahs zero reason why one of the first things dictatorships try to do when rising to power is to disarm the population




Or the dictatorship camouflages itself as a two party system, calls it "democracy" and lets you buy all the guns you want to enjoy the illusion of being free and empowered. It's also called "friendly dictatorship" and apparently it works fairly well.
 
tech12z said:volumen said:


I'm not even sure what you are saying, but I think I agree with your general point .







My point was that capitalism is so pervasive that we can't even think/act outside of it. It's embedded in us, such that even when we try and make explicitly anti-capitalist arguments (such as your own), we often unintentionally and implicitly support/enshrine/reproduce capitalism. It seems to me that your post intended to be anti-capitalist, but you unintentionally supported a capitalist movement when you implied support for pro-marijuana.





That's no kind of knock on you, for the record. I'm sure most people who identify as anti-capitalists inadvertently reproduce capitalism multiple times a day (that goes without saying on this particular forum). And that's what's so scary about capitalism.




I realize there is no getting out of capitalism. I'm just saying it's very rare that we get what we want out of it. Marijuana legalization is one of the few things.
 
Frank said:PatrickCrazy said:yeah brahs zero reason why one of the first things dictatorships try to do when rising to power is to disarm the population




Or the dictatorship camouflages itself as a two party system, calls it "democracy" and lets you buy all the guns you want to enjoy the illusion of being free and empowered. It's also called "friendly dictatorship" and apparently it works fairly well.




no one can buy all the guns they want and i'd imagine there's a strong anti-government sentiment (and thus under no illusion that freedom and empowerment springs forth solely from gun ownership) common among people who actually believe in the constitution and exercise their constitutional rights.





i'd agree with your sentiment given almost any other example
 
volumen said:tech12z said:volumen said:


I'm not even sure what you are saying, but I think I agree with your general point .







My point was that capitalism is so pervasive that we can't even think/act outside of it. It's embedded in us, such that even when we try and make explicitly anti-capitalist arguments (such as your own), we often unintentionally and implicitly support/enshrine/reproduce capitalism. It seems to me that your post intended to be anti-capitalist, but you unintentionally supported a capitalist movement when you implied support for pro-marijuana.





That's no kind of knock on you, for the record. I'm sure most people who identify as anti-capitalists inadvertently reproduce capitalism multiple times a day (that goes without saying on this particular forum). And that's what's so scary about capitalism.




I realize there is no getting out of capitalism. I'm just saying it's very rare that we get what we want out of it. Marijuana legalization is one of the few things.much less to do with capitalism than demographic shifts. colorado is not exactly raking in massive amounts of tax dollars even with the popularity of recent legislation. even if you inflated the $ government can skim, there is zero possible way this would have gotten accomplished decades ago
 
PatrickCrazy said:yeah brahs zero reason why one of the first things dictatorships try to do when rising to power is to disarm the population




Iraq, under Saddam, guns ownership was legal.


As soon as the US took over they outlawed gun ownership.


Proving your point.
 
PatrickCrazy said:


no one can buy all the guns they want




You were right about the dictatorship thing but wrong about this.


Volumen has already said that he and his family own all the guns they want.





I make +1.





What exactly is stopping you from owning all the guns you want?
 
HarveyCanal said:





But hell yeah, all the guns owned by civilians in the US has slowed the tyranny of executing or throwing any more of us into prison over political reasons.





.




Do you have an example to illustrate this? European gun laws are more strict than the US and you could actually argue Europeans have more general freedoms than the US. More workers rights. More public health care. More controls on chemicals exposure. And they've acieved this through protests and organization. Not closets full of guns Europe isn't perfect but if you protest in the US you get pepper sprayed and beat up in pretty quick order. That's called tyranny. Just try pulling your gun out and your next protest rally and see what happens. Do you remember the WTO protest in Seattle? They were shooting unarmed people with rubber bullets and coating down town in tear gas and pepper spray because their was a difference in political ideology. Political tyranny at its finest. If you had a gun at that rally you would have been shot dead and the cop would have been given a metal.
 
volumen said:HarveyCanal said:volumen said:HarveyCanal said:volumen said:





guns for everyone because the elites income trump children being murdered.




Umm, you lost me bigtime there. Guns are to protect individual selves as well as to protect us collectively from tyranny.





You can't want freedom and not want individuals to be free to own their own guns.




Dude, I'm talking about proper background checks, wait periods and no extra large clips. None of these infringe on your rights. If your actually worried about having an extra large clip to defend your self against government agents then news flash, it won't help. They will just drone you into oblivion.





We are living under tyranny right now, all the civilian guns have done nothing to stop this. Your gun is not stopping NSA from collecting all your personal info and unregulated spying on innocent civilians is a form of tyranny.





Your a smart guy Harvey but your falling right into the NRA's trap in thinking a gun in your closet makes you free.




You hadn't made any of those distinctions.





But hell yeah, all the guns owned by civilians in the US has slowed the tyranny of executing or throwing any more of us into prison over political reasons.





And while you say I'm aping the NRA (I'm not at all), you sound like you are aping the other end of the extreme...as if it's specifically large clips that has killed the children you mentioned.





I actually want civilians to have access to ALL weapons in existence as that what's governments (with 95% of them proven to be corrupt) have. Okay, maybe not nukes...but nobody should have those, governments included.




I grew up hunting and target shooting and all my family and in-laws own guns. Not one of us sees the need to own anything other than shotguns, rifles (hunting not assault) and pistols that hold the standard amount of bullets. The only reason you need large clips is to kill people. Yes, people kill people but guns make it easier and quicker to kill people. You could not kill 20 people in a movie theater if you had to strangle them. Seriously when has an armed citizen ever stopped a shooting spree because he was allowed to carry a concealed large clip gun? Never. What rights are you preserving having a gun in your house? None. Who will you stop from taking over with that gun? Nobody. The only thing your going to succeed in doing is to go down shooting, but your still going down. Your fully entitles to own a gun and defend your self but to actually claim you are going to stop tyranny with your gun is total la la land.




Cool. says you for you. Your family has the guns y'all want. Now don't come to my house and tell my family what guns we need to own or not own. Because maybe we have reasons you don't know about to want to own something outside of your own personal mindframe.





You want to minimize death, don't worry so much about about school shootings, some of which were staged by the way. But instead go after the US military who use much more lethal weapons to kill more innocent people than anybody.





I'm noticing how it's like you are addressing me as if you are leaving right off on another conversation you were having with someone else. My stance is that if Joe Soldier in my country can wield an M-16, then so should I be able to. He and I are supposedly on the same team so neither of us should have anything to worry about from each other.
 
volumen said:HarveyCanal said:





But hell yeah, all the guns owned by civilians in the US has slowed the tyranny of executing or throwing any more of us into prison over political reasons.





.




Do you have an example to illustrate this?







You ain't ever heard of them pulling bullshit like they did in Boston with those door to door sweeps in Texas, have you?
 
And shit, last killing spree was down here, just yesterday. But guess what, it was a PTSD soldier at a spot that has had recurring incidents. And hey, he used a .45 pistol. So of course throw a new law out there and some insults at the NRA and that totally wouldn't have happened.
 
PatrickCrazy said:


no one can buy all the guns they want







You would even believe me if I told you how many guns my family owns. We have all we want and a few more just because they looked like fun to shoot. We are still responsible about gun safety and don't kid ourselves that guns give us some sort of political power.
 
volumen said:PatrickCrazy said:


no one can buy all the guns they want







You would even believe me if I told you how many guns my family owns. We have all we want and a few more just because they looked like fun to shoot. We are still responsible about gun safety and don't kid ourselves that guns give us some sort of political power.




Not political power, physical power.





You are already of it. Stop playing denial and just be it already because if the shit goes down your family with guns will be the ones protecting you. Call it an insurance policy. I know none of y'all are going to shoot up a school. That's for Manchurian Candidate soldiers with microchips under their skin.
 
volumen said:HarveyCanal said:volumen said:HarveyCanal said:volumen said:





guns for everyone because the elites income trump children being murdered.
Click to expand...




Umm, you lost me bigtime there. Guns are to protect individual selves as well as to protect us collectively from tyranny.





You can't want freedom and not want individuals to be free to own their own guns.




Dude, I'm talking about proper background checks, wait periods and no extra large clips. None of these infringe on your rights. If your actually worried about having an extra large clip to defend your self against government agents then news flash, it won't help. They will just drone you into oblivion.





We are living under tyranny right now, all the civilian guns have done nothing to stop this. Your gun is not stopping NSA from collecting all your personal info and unregulated spying on innocent civilians is a form of tyranny.





Your a smart guy Harvey but your falling right into the NRA's trap in thinking a gun in your closet makes you free.




You hadn't made any of those distinctions.





But hell yeah, all the guns owned by civilians in the US has slowed the tyranny of executing or throwing any more of us into prison over political reasons.





And while you say I'm aping the NRA (I'm not at all), you sound like you are aping the other end of the extreme...as if it's specifically large clips that has killed the children you mentioned.





I actually want civilians to have access to ALL weapons in existence as that what's governments (with 95% of them proven to be corrupt) have. Okay, maybe not nukes...but nobody should have those, governments included.




I grew up hunting and target shooting and all my family and in-laws own guns. Not one of us sees the need to own anything other than shotguns, rifles (hunting not assault) and pistols that hold the standard amount of bullets. The only reason you need large clips is to kill people. Yes, people kill people but guns make it easier and quicker to kill people. You could not kill 20 people in a movie theater if you had to strangle them. Seriously when has an armed citizen ever stopped a shooting spree because he was allowed to carry a concealed large clip gun? Never. What rights are you preserving having a gun in your house? None. Who will you stop from taking over with that gun? Nobody. The only thing your going to succeed in doing is to go down shooting, but your still going down. Your fully entitles to own a gun and defend your self but to actually claim you are going to stop tyranny with your gun is total la la land.




Cool. says you for you. Your family has the guns y'all want. Now don't come to my house and tell my family what guns we need to own or not own. Because maybe we have reasons you don't know about to want to own something outside of your own personal mindframe.





You want to minimize death, don't worry so much about about school shootings, some of which were staged by the way. But instead go after the US military who use much more lethal weapons to kill more innocent people than anybody.





I'm noticing how it's like you are addressing me as if you are leaving right off on another conversation you were having with someone else. My stance is that if Joe Soldier in my country can wield an M-16, then so should I be able to. He and I are supposedly on the same team so neither of us should have anything to worry about from each other.




Staged school shootings and mutual assured destruction as a lifestyle choice. I forgot how paranoid you are.
 
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