It is going to get worse. (Politics and $$$ related)

tripledouble said:what state conventions?

There's already a legit 28th amendment movement that includes constitutional law lawyers, and it is building steam and working at the state legislature level to put pressure on state reps. to call for an Article V. Convention to propose amendments to the constitution and get big money out of politics: http://www.wolf-pac.com/





There's already a workable plan.





Been had.
 
Rockadelic said:volumen said:HarveyCanal said:And shit, last killing spree was down here, just yesterday. But guess what, it was a PTSD soldier at a spot that has had recurring incidents. And hey, he used a .45 pistol. So of course throw a new law out there and some insults at the NRA and that totally wouldn't have happened.




Hold the phone. A shooting spree happened at a military base in Texas. Even the most armed place in Texas couldn't stop one guy from killing multiple people before killing himself. Maybe more guns aren't the answer?




If this has already been addressed I apologize.....but as absurd as this is going to sound, Military bases are "Gun Free Zones" where even soldiers are not allowed to carry guns unless they are MP's on duty.





The great majority of mass shootings that have taken place in the U.S. over the last 20 years have been in "Gun Free Zones".




You mean like your house?





So you're saying you're endangering your family by not having a gun?





That's not actually how reality works.





And military bases with MPs on duty who have guns are not, by any sane definition, "Gun Free Zones."





But keep on echoing Wayne LaPierre, a fucking ghoul whose wallet goes ka-ching every time a mass shooting happens.
 
LazarusOblong said:Rockadelic said:volumen said:HarveyCanal said:And shit, last killing spree was down here, just yesterday. But guess what, it was a PTSD soldier at a spot that has had recurring incidents. And hey, he used a .45 pistol. So of course throw a new law out there and some insults at the NRA and that totally wouldn't have happened.




Hold the phone. A shooting spree happened at a military base in Texas. Even the most armed place in Texas couldn't stop one guy from killing multiple people before killing himself. Maybe more guns aren't the answer?




If this has already been addressed I apologize.....but as absurd as this is going to sound, Military bases are "Gun Free Zones" where even soldiers are not allowed to carry guns unless they are MP's on duty.





The great majority of mass shootings that have taken place in the U.S. over the last 20 years have been in "Gun Free Zones".




You mean like your house?





So you're saying you're endangering your family by not having a gun?





That's not actually how reality works.





And military bases with MPs on duty who have guns are not, by any sane definition, "Gun Free Zones."





But keep on echoing Wayne LaPierre, a fucking ghoul whose wallet goes ka-ching every time a mass shooting happens.




I'm echoing the truth...and it's not putting any money in MY pocket.





There are no laws that state you are not allowed to enter my house with a legal, registered gun.





However, that is not the case at Fort Hood and my comment was to simply correct a post that stated a Military base is filled with gun carrying soldiers...just not true.





"Military installations are technically ÔÇ£gun freeÔÇØ zones meaning that military and civilian personnel are prohibited from possessing weapons without special authorization. This policy includes those living on military bases who are not allowed to keep personal weapons in their domiciles. Regulation 90-114 regulates firearms on military bases"





And I'm not saying they SHOULD have guns, just stating the facts.
 
Rockadelic said:LazarusOblong said:Rockadelic said:volumen said:HarveyCanal said:And shit, last killing spree was down here, just yesterday. But guess what, it was a PTSD soldier at a spot that has had recurring incidents. And hey, he used a .45 pistol. So of course throw a new law out there and some insults at the NRA and that totally wouldn't have happened.




Hold the phone. A shooting spree happened at a military base in Texas. Even the most armed place in Texas couldn't stop one guy from killing multiple people before killing himself. Maybe more guns aren't the answer?




If this has already been addressed I apologize.....but as absurd as this is going to sound, Military bases are "Gun Free Zones" where even soldiers are not allowed to carry guns unless they are MP's on duty.





The great majority of mass shootings that have taken place in the U.S. over the last 20 years have been in "Gun Free Zones".




You mean like your house?





So you're saying you're endangering your family by not having a gun?





That's not actually how reality works.





And military bases with MPs on duty who have guns are not, by any sane definition, "Gun Free Zones."





But keep on echoing Wayne LaPierre, a fucking ghoul whose wallet goes ka-ching every time a mass shooting happens.




I'm echoing the truth...and it's not putting any money in MY pocket.





There are no laws that state you are not allowed to enter my house with a legal, registered gun.





However, that is not the case at Fort Hood and my comment was to simply correct a post that stated a Military base is filled with gun carrying soldiers...just not true.





"Military installations are technically ÔÇ£gun freeÔÇØ zones meaning that military and civilian personnel are prohibited from possessing weapons without special authorization. This policy includes those living on military bases who are not allowed to keep personal weapons in their domiciles. Regulation 90-114 regulates firearms on military bases"





And I'm not saying they SHOULD have guns, just stating the facts.




No, you're not.





You're using the pure bullshit term "Gun Free Zone" to describe a place which is, in, fact, loaded with guns.





You're doing that because in almost every instance I've observed you swallow and regurgitate wingnut terminology just as you're doing here.





A military base is a "Gun Free Zone" like a Texas Rangers home game is a "Beer Free Zone."





In other words, the term only applies if there is something seriously wrong with the mental apparatus of the person using it.





Are airports "Plane Free Zones" because only actual qualified pilots are allowed to fly planes in and out of them?





You're not a stupid man. Stop using the arguments of stupid men. It's beneath you.
 
So gratifying to see the debate has evolved from that entrenched, nuance-free zone of days gone by





::eye roll::
 
HarveyCanal said: Guns are to protect individual selves as well as to protect us collectively from tyranny.





You can't want freedom and not want individuals to be free to own their own guns.




I'm not against gun ownership per se but I'm for strict gun control and don't believe just any individual should be able to have one and that no civilian should be able to obtain assault rifles. Guns for home protection, no problem. I didn't feel the need for that while living in NYC but we had guns in Guinea and now in Costa Rica we have a 12 gauge and a 9mm semi. However, I would prefer if the country we currently live in wouldn't have an epidemic of violent home invasions, a totally useless police force and a legal system with a conviction rate of under 20% for accused violent offenders, laughably low prison sentences and a curious number of random pardons that probably are connected with cash donations.





First of all, liberal gun laws are no indicator of freedom but the result of millions of dollars spent by gun industry lobbyists (which -sort of -brings us back to the original post) and the whole thought that you need guns to protect yourself against a highly armed police force is nuts any angle you look at it.





If you really buy into a "them against us" ideology then why not consider the perspective that your people owning guns is them putting those guns into your hands so you can go and kill each other. I'm too lazy to look this shit up cause I have plants that need watering but what do you think the numbers of civilian on civilian gun killings are compared to civilian on pig gun killings. No cop is worried about you owning a gun. If they feel like coming though your door they'll just blow the damn thing off the hinges and march in with their robocop gear strapped on, just waiting for you to brandish a weapon and make their day. If they're not so lucky and you don't have a gun they might just put you down anyway and pry one into your cold dead hands.
 
LazarusOblong said:





You're using the pure bullshit term "Gun Free Zone" to describe a place which is, in, fact, loaded with guns.





.




The four deceased people at Fort Hood were forbidden, by law, to carry guns on the grounds of the base.





They were allowed to carry guns off the base.





You can come up with any politically correct pseudo-intellectual term you want to describe that..
 
Rockadelic said:LazarusOblong said:





You're using the pure bullshit term "Gun Free Zone" to describe a place which is, in, fact, loaded with guns.





.




The four deceased people at Fort Hood were forbidden, by law, to carry guns on the grounds of the base.





They were allowed to carry guns off the base.





You can come up with any politically correct pseudo-intellectual term you want to describe that..




I'll call it a sensible policy.





Your wingnut term "Gun Free Zone" is not only inaccurate, stupid and ridiculous - it's also a pseudo-intellectual and highly political term of the sort that the wingnuts you're surrounded by have been shitting out for decades.





Do you know who Frank Luntz is, or what his career has been all about? He told the GOP to start calling estate taxes "death taxes." Just one of his many rhetorical inventions.





Watch a guy who knows what he's talking about demolish an idiot who thinks your non-point is worth making:





http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/04/04/watch-a-medal-of-honor-recipient-smack-down-a-p/198747





(Video embedded in the article.)





Although I do have to admit that a mass shooting with thousands of Cowboys fans shooting each other has definite comedic (and gene pool enhancing) possibilities, I still think preventing all those yahoos from bringing their trusty gats into the stadium is a good idea.
 
I wonder if this assclown will use the "No Gun Free Zones" defense?





http://aattp.org/texas-mayor-drops-gun-in-the-middle-of-city-council-meeting-felony-investigation-en-route/
 
LazarusOblong said:


I'll call it a sensible policy.










I haven't seen anyone here argue one way or another that it's not.





Watching your Pavlovian reactions to a simply stated fact is pretty damn entertaining.





You create a previously unmentioned strawman and then argue against it.





This tends to give credibility to those who state "Liberalism is a mental disorder".
 
Rockadelic said:LazarusOblong said:


I'll call it a sensible policy.










I haven't seen anyone here argue one way or another that it's not.





Watching your Pavlovian reactions to a simply stated fact is pretty damn entertaining.





You create a previously unmentioned strawman and then argue against it.





This tends to give credibility to those who state "Liberalism is a mental disorder".




You generally take their side anyway, so what possible difference does it make?





You start tossing around another current moronic wingnut bumper sticker slogan about "Gun Free Zones" and you pretend you're not carrying their water for them.





Sure you're not.





Tell me some more about how global climate change is a hoax, Unca Reagan.
 
It's good to fight for a losing cause sometimes.


Sometimes it is smarter to save your battles for those that are winnable.





The Republican party and many conservatives have come to the conclusion that they have lost the same sex marriage battle. They are cutting their loses and concentrating on other issues.





The issue of gun control, like campaign finance, is lost. At least on the national level.
 
LazarusOblong said:Rockadelic said:LazarusOblong said:


I'll call it a sensible policy.










I haven't seen anyone here argue one way or another that it's not.





Watching your Pavlovian reactions to a simply stated fact is pretty damn entertaining.





You create a previously unmentioned strawman and then argue against it.





This tends to give credibility to those who state "Liberalism is a mental disorder".




You generally take their side anyway, so what possible difference does it make?





You start tossing around another current moronic wingnut bumper sticker slogan about "Gun Free Zones" and you pretend you're not carrying their water for them.





Sure you're not.





Tell me some more about how global climate change is a hoax, Unca Reagan.




I don't carry anyone's water.





According to the "Law Center To Prevent Gun Violence" Bill Clinton passed the GFZSA in 1994 as a response to increasing levels of gun violence in schools. As you stated, this is a sensible policy, but for some reason you just don't like the name of it. The same basic policies are in place on all Military bases in the U.S. The only thing you object to is using the term "Gun Free Zone", the very term used by Clinton when he passed the law?





When there is no valid argument, you argue semantics.....no surprise there.
 
As far as Climate Change...it is undeniable and has been taking place as long as this planet has existed. It has caused at least seven Ice Ages and the subsequent melting that followed......and humans will not be able to prevent #8 regardless of how big our egos are.





What is complete and utter bullshit is the Al Gore Global Warming narrative that has just happened to put millions of dollars in his pocket.





You can't change Nature.....Human or Mother.
 
I once heard a part of an Al Gore speech about how urgent it was to take action if we would want to make sure that "humans will inhabit this earth forever" and I immediately felt a deep and unsettling chill. What a truly horrific vision this would be: Our garbage species fucking up shit with no end. What kind of a person do you have to be to think this was a good thing?





Luckily the inevitable reality is very much different. If there'd be a god I'd thank him for that.
 
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