McDuff or McGriff ?

ok, reading this thread backwards.. so on the funk tip, i would from what ive heard with the two organ players in question, def choose mcgriff, would also pick him over jimmy smith..





dont see any mention of the organist with the dopest name in the game, groove holmes, luv that dudes work too!!











 
Strider79it said:to me Leon Spencer had the best basslines,




love his prominent, humourous bass style.





 
I really like this thread. Straight music talk - opinions paired with profound knowledge. We need more of that.





I would slightly prefer McDuff over McGriff without wanting to spare the latter. McGriff has more consistence but isn't surprising me. I like McDuff for having the classic soul-jazz stuff as well as the "Fouth Dimension" kind of material.





My additional calls for the list of funky organ players:





Shirley Scott


Memphis Black aka Ingfried Hoffmann


Eddy Louiss
 
m_dejean said:Re: Larry Young - that guy was in his own zone when it came to approaching the organ.


I'm listening to "Heaven On Earth" now. It's not one of his best LPs, but I keep it because of the fantastic, brooding 9 minute track "The Hereafter" (young G. Benson in fine form here too).





The funny thing is, there's a track on the same album called "The Infant" which is a more traditional Blue Note/Prestige/Atlantic funky soul-jazz tune a la McGriff etc., and it's striking how pedestrian it sounds compared to "The Hereafter". It's just not his element and it's evident that he was way beyond the "organ burner" thing.










yeah, it's funny 'Heaven On Earth' was like the last Young album I still needed, and when i finally got it, it was a little disappointing. Parts of it sound like they were trying to reel him in and see if he could do a "Sidewinder"-style hit song, the same way they seem to have done with Andrew Hill on "Grass Roots". Those albums are still enjoyable and have their moments, but definitely seem kind of restrained and commercial.





so what other organ players really pushed the envelope and broke new ground? for one, I really appreciate Shirley Scott's LP on Strata East. While not as wild and blatantly 'out' as Larry Young, i find that her 'one for me' steers largely clear of the greasy bluesy soul-jazz styles that most organists worked in. It shows she had a different conception of what organ can do, and it's innovative and fresh but in a very subtle way that I find to be very dignified and pretty profound.
 
disco_che said:I really like this thread. Straight music talk - opinions paired with profound knowledge. We need more of that.




amen. One organist who I think has the most distinctive style is Patton. He's almost deliberately un-flashy. It think it was a clever and bold move when everyone else was getting branded as JS sound a like. On some tracks I find he meanders too much, but when the rhythm section's pushing him along it works well. I mostly like his work for the chemistry with Grant Green on this LP and on the guitarist's own Iron City.





 
While we're on the subject of organ players, we can't forget Reuben Wilson,Bill Mason and Neal Creque.
 
fred_mcgriff_autograph.jpg
 
Hey,





For the reasons stated by F-16, I've always preferred Jack McDuff or Jimmy McGriff. They are both excellent organists, but I find McDuff's work to be more moody and evocative emotionally, than McGriff's more straight-ahead style. Plus, I love McDuff's treatment of ballads (e.g., "Shadow of Your Smile" off the "Tobacco Road" LP) relative to McGriff's interpretations of them. Yet, when it comes to organists, my favorite is Charles Earland's late 60s/early 70s material (before he switched to electric piano).





Peace,





Big Stacks from Kakalak
 
One organist who I think has the most distinctive style is Patton. He???s almost deliberately un-flashy. It think it was a clever and bold move when everyone else was getting branded as JS sound a like. On some tracks I find he meanders too much, but when the rhythm section???s pushing him along it works well.




His finest moment: 1969's Understanding. I know I've big-upped this album every chance I got, but since we touched on the subject of organ players going "avant-garde," this LP must be mentioned. Patton is playing "in," saxophonist Harold Alexander is playing "out," and you'd expect it to be mismatch of the century, but no - this works. They play off each other quite well, and it's too bad this was one of Patton's last LP's for a long time.





Billy Larkin and Dave Lewis probably wouldn't be considered "innovators" - especially since their songs averaged around three minutes apiece, which is short for a jazz musician. But I like their stuff a lot. Larkin (& the Delegates) recorded a gang of LP's for Aura/World Pacific in the sixties; Dave Lewis had an album on A&M, Little Green Thing, and was highly influential on the Pacific Northwest rock scene (including the Kingsmen, who recorded a few of his tunes).
 
McDuff's [...] "Shadow of Your Smile" off the "Tobacco Road" LP




love. love, love that version, in fact that's the record i reached for when this thread started. mcduff all day. mcgriff was basically a really good blues player (which is what he always considered himself to be) and he has only like 1-2 essential albums and even then i almost never pull them out whereas brother jack has at least 5-8 albums that get visited fairly often.





other organist i admire that havn't been mentioned:





-paul griffin (ain't never gonna do it without the fez on!!)


-rhoda scott


-ceasar frazier


-freddie roach





for my money, groove holmes had the best basslines.
 
My favourite of the obscure organists has to be Bill Mason, mainly for his work on the two "fire" LPs of Rusty Bryant. Can any one show me an organ solo with more fire in it than this one?





 
tabira said:My favourite of the obscure organists has to be Bill Mason, mainly for his work on the two "fire" LPs of Rusty Bryant. Can any one show me an organ solo with more fire in it than this one?







Don't sleep on his solo lp Gettin' Off on Eastbound. It has THE best cover of Al Green's Lets Stay Together.
 
ok as long as we're reppin our favorite organists, i gotta shout out the hometown homeboy Gene Ludwig. guy could hang with anybody. RIP GeLu we miss you.
 
stratasphere said:tabira said:My favourite of the obscure organists has to be Bill Mason, mainly for his work on the two "fire" LPs of Rusty Bryant. Can any one show me an organ solo with more fire in it than this one?







Don't sleep on his solo lp Gettin' Off on Eastbound. It has THE best cover of Al Green's Lets Stay Together.




I have it and most dig the track "Stone" but to be honest I prefer the Bryant sides. Did Mason ever record with anyone else?
 
for Pickwick: "Understanding" is my favourite Patton lp too !...





love Mason of course, and speaking of obscure organists playing great solos,please check Shelton Laster solo in "Flood in Franklin Park" off Grant Green's "Live at the Lighthouse": absolutely rockin' perfect !





Reuben Wilson anyone ? He never went "out" yet he experimented a bit in "set us free" with choirs vibes and percussions .. some of his jams on those couple of Blue Note albums are great too...





Charles Kynard : his prestige albums are great but his later records for Mainstream are a bit overrated...





Johnny Hammond: my favourite Lp of his is "Soul Talk", he was very good with ballads...
 
leisurebandit said:ok as long as we're reppin our favorite organists, i gotta shout out the hometown homeboy Gene Ludwig. guy could hang with anybody. RIP GeLu we miss you.







Respect. Got 'Mr Fink Pts 1&2' rolling in the radio show tonight.
 
Love both McGriff and McDuff, hell they even sit next to each other in my collection. I can't believe nobody's mentioned McDuff's version of Naima on his 'Life Every Voice And Sing' album on Jam - that is killer. I even like his Sugarhill stuff too, like 'Kisses'.