Snowden's interview with NBC was the truth...

[Rockadelic]

Duderonomy said:Very mature. This isn't a who's-the-best v who's-the-worst. USA & allies (the 5 eyes?) have been shown to be hypocrites. The political points scored from this is the story. Why is Ecuador giving shelter to Assange? It looks good to stick your fingers up at the west.




Send me a postcard from Ecuador or Russia preferably with you maturely sticking your finger up at the West.





http://www.transparency.org/country

 

[LaserWolf]

What I have learned on soulstrut is the stuff Edward Snowden gave to the press everyone here already new.


I also have been told by strutteratti that Edward Snowden was a low level employee, douche bag, and didn't have access to any real secrets.


I have been told by those at soulstrut who are in a position to know that he was not a spy.





Now I am hearing from those same geniuses that he gave the Russians secrets in exchange for asylum.

 

[skel]

LaserWolf said:





Now I am hearing from those same genii that he gave the Russians secrets in exchange for asylum.




Fixed

 

[dreskieboogie]

Duderonomy said: It's worth granting Snowden asylum just for the points scored over the-land-of-teh-free... on the one hand Putin is criticised at home and abroad as being authoritarian and repressive (gay rights, democracy etc etc which I believe he is), on the other hand he's protecting a dissenter.




B.I.N.G.O.

 

[JectWon]

Seems to be a decent amount of chatter in this thread that attempts to boil this (incredibly complex) issue down to simple "with us or against us", "'merica sucks" vs "love it or leave it" type bullshit...the world has never been that simple; pretending that it is is just a waste of time.





If anyone would like to see how incredibly complicated the various pieces of this whole argument are, I suggest watching Frontline's two part documentary on it.





http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/united-states-of-secrets/





Part one mostly covers territory that we've already known about for a long time (the shadowy/unprecedented developments that occurred immediately after 9-11) and different peoples motivations/arguments for doing what they did. However, there are many pieces of new info that I personally gleamed from Part One and I strongly suggest watching it. Part two goes into the Snowden developments.





It is certainly the most encompassing narrative that I have found on this topic.

 

[kala]

Rockadelic saiduderonomy said:Very mature. This isn't a who's-the-best v who's-the-worst. USA & allies (the 5 eyes?) have been shown to be hypocrites. The political points scored from this is the story. Why is Ecuador giving shelter to Assange? It looks good to stick your fingers up at the west.




Send me a postcard from Ecuador or Russia preferably with you maturely sticking your finger up at the West.





http://www.transparency.org/country




so speaks the guy whoose biggest trip/cultural exchange abroad was to scotland? the uk? germany so you could collect those special dolls with your wife?





check out vietnam, cambodia ,panama , jamaica or amsterdam and then start talking about what you know about freedom

 

[vintageinfants]

[media]//www.youtube.com/embed/pfG3VXaasF0[/media]

 

[Rockadelic]

kala said:Rockadelic saiduderonomy said:Very mature. This isn't a who's-the-best v who's-the-worst. USA & allies (the 5 eyes?) have been shown to be hypocrites. The political points scored from this is the story. Why is Ecuador giving shelter to Assange? It looks good to stick your fingers up at the west.




Send me a postcard from Ecuador or Russia preferably with you maturely sticking your finger up at the West.





http://www.transparency.org/country




so speaks the guy whoose biggest trip/cultural exchange abroad was to scotland? the uk? germany so you could collect those special dolls with your wife?





check out vietnam, cambodia ,panama , jamaica or amsterdam and then start talking about what you know about freedom




Fuck my personal experience.....or yours for that matter....did you bother to investigate the link I posted? Understand it?





Calling the U.S. hypocritical from Putin's standpoint is like a serial killer calling one of the jurors that helped convict him a hypocrite for once getting a speeding ticket.

 

[cove]

JectWon said:


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/united-states-of-secrets/





Part one mostly covers territory that we've already known about for a long time (the shadowy/unprecedented developments that occurred immediately after 9-11) and different peoples motivations/arguments for doing what they did. However, there are many pieces of new info that I personally gleamed from Part One and I strongly suggest watching it. Part two goes into the Snowden developments.





It is certainly the most encompassing narrative that I have found on this topic.




Came here to post this doc. Watched it last night. Pretty good.

 

[Duderonomy]

Rockadelic said:


Calling the U.S. hypocritical from Putin's standpoint is like a serial killer calling one of the jurors that helped convict him a hypocrite for once getting a speeding ticket.




???????????????????????





It's not from Putin's standpoint, it's from the position the USA (and the democratic West) has placed itself, in relation to the highly, highly touted personal freedoms at home and decisions foreign policy (ie wars) have been based upon.


Your response is like that of so many politicians and political parties at the moment; criticism from one side is never met with an answer, instead fingers are pointed back, "I know you are, but what am I" style. Has Putin ever pretended to be spreading democracy, fair play, transparency, or Mom's apple pie? No. I don't think the guy is imaginative enough to think about changing or enhancing quality of life for anyone but himself and his cronies.


This is politics (PR, bluster, words, whatever), and Putin's a winner until America can swallow it's pride and grant Snowden immunity. Which they won't do.


It's like Putin has your wife's panties and he's flying them from a flagpole in his front yard.

 

[vintageinfants]

Duderonomy said:


It's like Putin has your wife's panties and he's flying them from a flagpole in his front yard.







:face_melt:

 

[Rockadelic]

If Snowden was Russian he would be dead...to think otherwise is naive.





Putin only wins in the eyes of those who already have disdain towards the U.S.





Hollow victory at best.

 

[Duderonomy]

Putin is a frickin' old-skool narcassist! He wins in his own eyes! That's what it's all about.








As if anything Snowden leaked would be news to him anyway...








(and no, I didn't mean Rock's wife's panties! America's)








As it's all about winning to you Rock, I'll reiterate my point; for America to win, they have to forgive Snowden. They have to be the bigger person. The adult. Admit being wrong. It shouldn't be that difficult - hasn't a Congressional Oversight committee already said that the NSA was acting beyond it's remit? It's in the country's best interests, it's the whole fabric of America, protecting freedom & democracy, being put to the test. I want to see America pass this test.


But this is Putin, waving the panties.


This isn't a hollow victory.

 

[DOR]

Some ding dong in the government once wrote





"The only sure bulwark of continuing liberty is a government strong enough to protect the interests of the people, and a people strong enough and well enough informed to maintain its sovereign control over the government."





Rock, do you feel Snowden is a criminal? Taking any other country in the world out of the equation. Is there anything patriotic to what he has done?

 

[Rockadelic]

DOR said:Rock, do you feel Snowden is a criminal? Taking any other country in the world out of the equation. Is there anything patriotic to what he has done?




Deciding if someone is a criminal is not based on "feeling".





He stole and leaked classified government documents which does make him a criminal by definition.





If, as the Obama administration claims, he put American lives in danger they will decide if he is a criminal or a traitor.





Whether or not I believe what he did was morally right is besides the point.

 

[Rockadelic]

BTW....I also believe the NSA overstepped their legal bounds and should be punished accordingly.





Two wrongs never make a right.

 

[JectWon]

vintageinfants saiduderonomy said:


It's like Putin has your wife's panties and he's flying them from a flagpole in his front yard.

This gif makes all the side bar arguments worth it.

 

[vintageinfants]

Rockadelic said:





Two wrongs never make a right.

brought to you by the country that spies on its citizens for security, bombs for peace and uses guns to keep away guns.

 

[Rockadelic]

vintageinfants said:Rockadelic said:





Two wrongs never make a right.

brought to you by the country that spies on its citizens for security, bombs for peace and uses guns to keep away guns.




No, actually it was brought to you by a citizen of said country who has plenty of problems with some, but not all of it's governments actions.

 

[Rockadelic]

And I certainly understand why folks outside the U.S. are reveling in this....probably the same feeling I get when the NY Yankees are in last place.