the 'merican terrorist.
- Thread starter gir
- Start date
a point often missed in the grand mess that has been the last 5 years of life in the United States
Who are these people who want us all (I'm assuming you mean people in the Western World) dead?
We can start with Al Quaeda......and it doesn't really matter how many different groups/countries may want us dead....it's just gonna take one....the right one.
I had an argument with a Symphonic Progressive music fan one time who said Bo Diddley was shit.....his argument was that he only played one chord....my argument was that while that may be true, it was the "right one".
Al Quaeda may be the Bo Diddley of Terrorism.....
I shouldn't drink more than 4 beers on a Tuesday night!!
guzzo read the book taliban by ahmed rashid. should be able to get a cheap copy at a used book store or new at any decent b*rnes and n*bles.
a point often missed in the grand mess that has been the last 5 years of life in the United States
Who are these people who want us all (I'm assuming you mean people in the Western World) dead?
We can start with Al Quaeda......and it doesn't really matter how many different groups/countries may want us dead....it's just gonna take one....the right one.
I had an argument with a Symphonic Progressive music fan one time who said Bo Diddley was shit.....his argument was that he only played one chord....my argument was that while that may be true, it was the "right one".
Al Quaeda may be the Bo Diddley of Terrorism.....
I shouldn't drink more than 4 beers on a Tuesday night!!
Did you just compare Al Quaeda to Bo Diddley?
Thank's Gir interesting article.
To recap, JWL joined the Taliban army at a time when we were not at war with them. Nor were we supporting the Northern Alliance at that time.
JLW was not a member of Al Qaeda.
JWL never (according to his dad) took up arms against American forces. Nor (according to his dad) did he ever fire his weapon.
It was well documented that he was brutally tortured and mistreated. I am sure everyone on this board can agree that his treatment was a human rights violation. It saddens me (and sickens me) that so many of us care so little that our government is torturing people and committing human rights violations.
Rockadelic: (Or who ever was fearing them killing us all.) Our nation is big and strong and mighty. We can contain, weaken and defeat al Qaeda without resorting to hanging JWL and torture, and human rights violations and domestic spying. If we can not, then what is the point of living?
Guzzo:
Taliban: The old ruling party of Afghanistan. A inhuman, authoritarian, religious regime that was happy to cut it self off from the rest of the world. Before 9/11 GWB was in the process of reversing Clinton's sanctions on Afghanistan.
al Qaeda: An international terrorist organization that supported the Taliban in exchange for a base of operations.
Are we all good now?
Dan
Check it out, the new computer has spell check.
To recap, JWL joined the Taliban army at a time when we were not at war with them. Nor were we supporting the Northern Alliance at that time.
JLW was not a member of Al Qaeda.
JWL never (according to his dad) took up arms against American forces. Nor (according to his dad) did he ever fire his weapon.
It was well documented that he was brutally tortured and mistreated. I am sure everyone on this board can agree that his treatment was a human rights violation. It saddens me (and sickens me) that so many of us care so little that our government is torturing people and committing human rights violations.
Rockadelic: (Or who ever was fearing them killing us all.) Our nation is big and strong and mighty. We can contain, weaken and defeat al Qaeda without resorting to hanging JWL and torture, and human rights violations and domestic spying. If we can not, then what is the point of living?
Guzzo:
Taliban: The old ruling party of Afghanistan. A inhuman, authoritarian, religious regime that was happy to cut it self off from the rest of the world. Before 9/11 GWB was in the process of reversing Clinton's sanctions on Afghanistan.
al Qaeda: An international terrorist organization that supported the Taliban in exchange for a base of operations.
Are we all good now?
Dan
Check it out, the new computer has spell check.
This really doesn't show that they are very different it just gives a tagline to the operations and mission of the (two) groups
and having Lindh fight as a member of the taliban, an "inhuman, authoritarian, religious regime" does nothing to better my opinion of Lindh. It feels like the people who are trying to turn him into a cause are not doing so for him but rather to show their opposition to the Bush regime.
You see no difference between a government and a terrorist organization? I'll re-point out one difference; the Taliban was not interested in anything outside Afganistan, al Qaeda was an international organization. Perhaps what you are saying is both are bad, and everything bad is the same to you, Taliban, al Qaeda, Britney Spears, all the same thing.
Nor mine, accept that - if you remember 9/11 - al Qaeda attacked us; the Taliban did not.
I'm guessing you did not read the article. I know of no one who is trying to "turn him into a cause". His dad is trying to get his sentence shortened. I'm sure your dad would do the same for you. He is not trying to do it by attacking Bush, he is making an appeal to Bush to shorten the sentence.
It sounds to me like your hatred or al Qaeda, JWL and the Taliban is so strong that you care nothing about the torture, human rights abuses or the rest of Bush's policies.
So let's return to the original topic then, Lindh. What are people's opinions of him:
As an American does he have the freedom to join groups, whether they be good or bad, and thus joining the Taliban was just an expression of this right?
Was he simply a naive young American dude who ended up in the wrong place at the wrong time?
Was he, as his dad argues, actually a prisoner of the Taliban who was freed by U.S. forces?
Did he join a bad group, the Taliban, and thus should be punished?
Was he with a group allied with terrorists and thus guilty by association?
Other views?
I expressed my opinion in an earlier post. The Taliban ran a pretty fucked up Islamist style of government. Lindh became a Muslim, started traveling throughout Southwest and Southern Asia and got involved in radical Islamist politics which led him to Afghanistan. I'm not for hanging the guy or torturing him, but I'm not willing to give him a free pass either.
As an American does he have the freedom to join groups, whether they be good or bad, and thus joining the Taliban was just an expression of this right?
Was he simply a naive young American dude who ended up in the wrong place at the wrong time?
Was he, as his dad argues, actually a prisoner of the Taliban who was freed by U.S. forces?
Did he join a bad group, the Taliban, and thus should be punished?
Was he with a group allied with terrorists and thus guilty by association?
Other views?
I expressed my opinion in an earlier post. The Taliban ran a pretty fucked up Islamist style of government. Lindh became a Muslim, started traveling throughout Southwest and Southern Asia and got involved in radical Islamist politics which led him to Afghanistan. I'm not for hanging the guy or torturing him, but I'm not willing to give him a free pass either.
While we're talking about American terrorists, what's going on with Jose Padilla these days? I heard that the gov't dropped all the bombing related charges because the Supremes were about to look into the legality of detaining American citizens without charging them... anyone know the latest?
There was a gap between 9/11 and the invasion of Afganistan. I find it hard to believe he didn't know the US would invade. I am sure he had some idea of what was going on in the world.
I'm not sure that the right of free association would cover joining a foreign military. Can an American go to Canada and join the Canadian military? I don't know. I know foreign nationals including many Mexican nationals are in the US military. Joining the Taliban would be like going to Burma and joining the Miramar army. If that's not illegal it should be.
He was 19. Naive is a good description of 19.
I think the facts are clear that he was a prisoner of an Afghan war lord. He then ended up in US custody. My guess is the war lord was a Taliban when the Taliban ruled and a NA when the NA ruled.
It's not that he joined the Taliban, that would be free association. But he joined the Taliban army, and that sounds like it should be a crime to me.
Yes.
His dad paints a picture of a kid on a spiritual quest. His goal was to memorize the Quran, and become a Muslim scholar. But that was not what he was doing from August - December, he was in the Taliban army.
The government was prepared to try him and call for capitol punishment on treason charges. The trial was set with a government friendly judge. The trial, near the Pentagon, was set to begin on the first anniversary of 9/11.
But the government had a problem. No case beyond he was captured in Afghanistan with a bullet wound and was Muslim. Even today that's enough for a jury of 12 Sabadabas would hang him.
A plea bargain was struck. He received 20 years. Prison seems like a good place to memorize the Quran and contemplate it's meaning. If he does that, and can show redemption, I see nothing wrong with an early parole.
Agreed.
I'd rather talk about torture. While the president today says we do not torture. He also maintains he has the right to order torture of enemy combatants.
The facts are clear. Lndh was denied medical treatment and subjected to other inhuman treatment. His confession was obtained through torture. That scares me far more than Lind does.
Dan
