It's 2010 + The Beatles are too Raw (Xmas + Record-R)
- Thread starter onetet
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mannybolone saidersonally, I like the instrumental music option. If he's got a feel for pop songs, then an album of instrumental jazz standards - especially those with a decent rhythm section - might be a way to slip in some pop content without being overly obvious about it.
For sure. I???m leaning toward filling an ipod with these kinds of things when his birthday rolls around in a few months. Here???s where I could use some guidance ??? music that actually sounds good to kids, rather than music I???d like to think they???d appreciate. Things like the Meters do go over well?
I also wonder how he'd respond to things like Latin, Tropicalia, etc where the lyrical content should be incomprehensible to him -- and thus, presumably, beyond reproach. But again, it might be wishful thinking that he'd really enjoy it. More to the point, his parents may also find arbitrary objections that are really about them not wanting to expose him to things they find weird or different -- and, ultimately, about them maintaining a sick level of control over what he sees and hears.
mannybolone said:
Also, and this has nothing to do with music, but in the long term, just be that cool uncle who's willing to be supportive and let dude crash at your spot when he becomes a teenager and decides (perhaps) that Jesus-bubble-land isn't really where he wants to live for the rest of his life. If he has any inclination to break free, he'll need allies.
Yeah, I had a cool uncle into jazz, soul, world literature etc who showed me that the sheltered Christian life my mom wanted for me wasn???t what I wanted, and I would very much like to do this for my nephew. I have a good idea of what that would look like once he???s a teenager, but finding ways to start doing that at age 10 has been tricky for me.
day said:
All kidding aside, I can't tell you how frustrating it is to see people on this shit in 2010. I respect people's beliefs and all, but banning the Beatles most milquetoast album is beyond comprehension to me???
I'm more concerned with lil man's stifling upbringing than any music he might be exposed to.
Yeah, this situation is really eating at my mind. I have a lot of resentment about the strict religious way I was raised, and it boggles my mind that my sister has not only followed that path, she???s taken things even further. I was listening to the music I wanted to by age 10, why can???t my nephew do the same 25 years later? The few times he's heard good music (e.g. Jackson 5 at a wedding), it's thrilled him. What sane and loving parent wouldn't see that as healthy and encourage that interest?
As you suspect, the Beatles ban isn???t an isolated thing ??? to my mind it???s a small detail that aptly illustrates a larger attitude to child-rearing that is repressive, unhealthy, and probably cruel. I don???t want to see *anyone* grow up thinking life is all about Jesus, Wal-Mart, and Chick-fil-A (not necessarily in that order), let alone a close relative.
Actually, instrumental Latin could be a pretty interesting way to go. Might be interesting to test the waters (and could lead to a very interesting - albeit sanity-challenging - conversation around "inappropriate rhythms").
I'll say this much as a parent - no one likes other people opining, whether implicitly or explicitly, on their approach to raising their own children. Few things could likely drive a wedge between you and your sister's family faster than the idea that you're trying to criticize, let alone undermine, how she raises her kids. You may very well think her approach is unhealthy but it's her call. Your best hope is that your nephew will develop enough of an independent personality and spirit to choose his own path later. The best you can do, as I suggested earlier, is to just make it known you're an ally and, in the meanwhile, be patient that he'll find his own path in the world.
BTW: You can diss Jesus and Wal-Mart but leave Chik-Fil-A alone.
I'll say this much as a parent - no one likes other people opining, whether implicitly or explicitly, on their approach to raising their own children. Few things could likely drive a wedge between you and your sister's family faster than the idea that you're trying to criticize, let alone undermine, how she raises her kids. You may very well think her approach is unhealthy but it's her call. Your best hope is that your nephew will develop enough of an independent personality and spirit to choose his own path later. The best you can do, as I suggested earlier, is to just make it known you're an ally and, in the meanwhile, be patient that he'll find his own path in the world.
BTW: You can diss Jesus and Wal-Mart but leave Chik-Fil-A alone.
You are fighting a losing battle. Your nephew is going to go through a lot just to do the smallest things. I hate to say it but kids like this get a little taste of freedom they go all out. From what I've witnessed in my years, keeping your kids sheltered on a short leash just leads to rebellion. He'll get tired of all the "keen on Jesus stuff" and break free. In this day and age this type of sheltering usually leads to the overprotective parents becoming very young, pissed off grandparents. Just respect your family's wishes and try not to be the bad guy. He'll find his way. Good Luck homie!
mannybolone said:
I'll say this much as a parent - no one likes other people opining, whether implicitly or explicitly, on their approach to raising their own children. Few things could likely drive a wedge between you and your sister's family faster than the idea that you're trying to criticize, let alone undermine, how she raises her kids. You may very well think her approach is unhealthy but it's her call. Your best hope is that your nephew will develop enough of an independent personality and spirit to choose his own path later. The best you can do, as I suggested earlier, is to just make it known you're an ally and, in the meanwhile, be patient that he'll find his own path in the world.
Definitely hear all that. Part of why I put this out there was to take the situation out of the closed-circuit that is my crazy family, and see how intensely the reactions of strangers would be. Namely, does the Strut think blocking a 10-year-old kid's access to "Twist and Shout" and "I Want to Hold Your Hand" is
--crazy and cause for serious concern
--overly strict but her call
--common and reasonable
The weird thing is that my sister verbally encourages me to be the "cool uncle," even using that term and referencing the uncle that helped me discover music and literature. But whenever I take that to heart and actually try to talk about things I'm interested in -- city living, international food, film, music -- making every effort to keep it age appropriate, the reaction is like I handed him a Burzum lp and the Satanic Bible.
mannybolone said:
BTW: You can diss Jesus and Wal-Mart but leave Chik-Fil-A alone.
ok, so here's how i feel about this.
She said wait a year, cuz he's 10?
no problem.
10 at grade 5 emerges the dawnings of musical interest....
11 he moves from toys & games to societal interaction with peers and possibly love interests..
12 he reaches grade 7 at which point toys are a thing of the past and: Music, girls, sports, hobbies take precedence...
I got into music at age 11, cassette players were becoming part of everyone's household, but didn't decide for myself on what i wanted till age of 12....
went from rock at age 11 in 88 (bon jovi, poison, guns n roses + Run DMC's raising hell)
to by the age of 12: BDP, de la soul, maesro fresh wes, young MC etc....
by 13, straight ouf of compton got stuck in my parents car stereo and wouldn't eject, i got a call to the principles office the next day and got my fathers angry voice yelling at me with my (overzealous christian) mom crying in the background once she heard what was in the car tape deck (trust me, when it got stuck in there the night before (while my mom was at church, I was sitting in the car blasting NWA) i was sweating, I turned it right off for the ride home)
at 13 in 1990, i asked for Fear of a Black Planet for christmas, got it, played it, to have my ex WW2 colonel of a grandfather trip out on the fam about the ********pro-black**********content on the album.
so, I say, if your sister says wait a year, no prob, he's not gonna care too much anyways at age 10.........you've planted the seeds, he'll reach out to you when the time is right. and, what's more, by next year, ask HIM what he wants (music-wise) for christmas, and just get it for him.
She said wait a year, cuz he's 10?
no problem.
10 at grade 5 emerges the dawnings of musical interest....
11 he moves from toys & games to societal interaction with peers and possibly love interests..
12 he reaches grade 7 at which point toys are a thing of the past and: Music, girls, sports, hobbies take precedence...
I got into music at age 11, cassette players were becoming part of everyone's household, but didn't decide for myself on what i wanted till age of 12....
went from rock at age 11 in 88 (bon jovi, poison, guns n roses + Run DMC's raising hell)
to by the age of 12: BDP, de la soul, maesro fresh wes, young MC etc....
by 13, straight ouf of compton got stuck in my parents car stereo and wouldn't eject, i got a call to the principles office the next day and got my fathers angry voice yelling at me with my (overzealous christian) mom crying in the background once she heard what was in the car tape deck (trust me, when it got stuck in there the night before (while my mom was at church, I was sitting in the car blasting NWA) i was sweating, I turned it right off for the ride home)
at 13 in 1990, i asked for Fear of a Black Planet for christmas, got it, played it, to have my ex WW2 colonel of a grandfather trip out on the fam about the ********pro-black**********content on the album.
so, I say, if your sister says wait a year, no prob, he's not gonna care too much anyways at age 10.........you've planted the seeds, he'll reach out to you when the time is right. and, what's more, by next year, ask HIM what he wants (music-wise) for christmas, and just get it for him.
It doesn't matter what the kid is taught, it's how the parents teach it to them that matters. If they are strict but understanding they have the greatest chance to shape their kids behavior.
As for music why not try an Al Green religious album or something? There are a lot of great soulful gospel albums if you want to go that way because it seems like getting him into cool music is the point right?
As for music why not try an Al Green religious album or something? There are a lot of great soulful gospel albums if you want to go that way because it seems like getting him into cool music is the point right?
This.
Shit drives me nuts, but as long as it's a safe and loving house nobody but the parents should be making those calls. As someone said, there'll come a day when he'll likely start testing those boundaries himself.
That said, I've never understood followers of an all-powerful god hiding from music, TV and books. Makes you wonder if they really have any faith at all.
onetet,
I hope I'm not out of line and that I'm not getting confused here, but it seems to me that through this entire conflict you've been trying to subvert your sister's "parental authority" (so to speak). Have you tried taking your sister aside and discussing with her what music would be appropriate? It would be better for you and her to hash out the music issue once and for all, before you try to get your nephew new music.
For example, maybe try to find out what particular Beatles songs she has a problem with, and which ones she would be alright with him listening to and then making your nephew a mixtape of the approved Beatles songs. Make him a mixtape of cool gospel and soul music that she's alright with. Classical music must be approved, right? What about jazz, house, and other forms of primarily instrumental music?
If your sister is afraid that music will be a corrupting influence on your nephew, you have to show her that that isn't necessarily so! Instead of working against her, work with her. After all, the goal is to enrich your nephew's musical experience, not to to aggravate your sister and your mom, right?
Hope I'm not out of line with any of this, and I apologize if I am.
I hope I'm not out of line and that I'm not getting confused here, but it seems to me that through this entire conflict you've been trying to subvert your sister's "parental authority" (so to speak). Have you tried taking your sister aside and discussing with her what music would be appropriate? It would be better for you and her to hash out the music issue once and for all, before you try to get your nephew new music.
For example, maybe try to find out what particular Beatles songs she has a problem with, and which ones she would be alright with him listening to and then making your nephew a mixtape of the approved Beatles songs. Make him a mixtape of cool gospel and soul music that she's alright with. Classical music must be approved, right? What about jazz, house, and other forms of primarily instrumental music?
If your sister is afraid that music will be a corrupting influence on your nephew, you have to show her that that isn't necessarily so! Instead of working against her, work with her. After all, the goal is to enrich your nephew's musical experience, not to to aggravate your sister and your mom, right?
Hope I'm not out of line with any of this, and I apologize if I am.
motown67 said:
As for music why not try an Al Green religious album or something? There are a lot of great soulful gospel albums if you want to go that way because it seems like getting him into cool music is the point right?
I've thought about Al Green. I love his secular music, but haven't gotten into his gospel records. Any recommendations?
dwyhajlo, you're not out of line. I posted this partly to see if my concern for how the kid's being raised is valid. I want to respect her right to raise her kid as she sees fit -- as long as she's not causing him harm or denying him a healthy life. I'm trying to gauge when and if restricted access to music enters that territory. IMO it does -- it's certainly something that caused me pain growing up, and my mom (this kid's grandma) wasn't even as restrictive -- but maybe that view's not generally shared.
The conversation you suggest is a very reasonable one. However, I wouldn't be having that conversation with someone who herself knows The Beatles' music well and could discuss them song by song. I'd be having it with someone who was listening to Kenny G and Michael Bolton while I was growing up to PE and Fugazi, and who soon abandoned even Michael Bolton for a strict diet of bland Christian synth pop.
In my conversations with her a year ago I'd made it clear that I would limit the Beatles exposure to the early songs, and she'd led me to believe that a year from then (i.e. this Christmas, 2 days ago) it would be an acceptable present. And she acted that way in the moment, and then apparently confiscated the present after I split.
As for music why not try an Al Green religious album or something? There are a lot of great soulful gospel albums if you want to go that way because it seems like getting him into cool music is the point right?
I've thought about Al Green. I love his secular music, but haven't gotten into his gospel records. Any recommendations?
dwyhajlo, you're not out of line. I posted this partly to see if my concern for how the kid's being raised is valid. I want to respect her right to raise her kid as she sees fit -- as long as she's not causing him harm or denying him a healthy life. I'm trying to gauge when and if restricted access to music enters that territory. IMO it does -- it's certainly something that caused me pain growing up, and my mom (this kid's grandma) wasn't even as restrictive -- but maybe that view's not generally shared.
The conversation you suggest is a very reasonable one. However, I wouldn't be having that conversation with someone who herself knows The Beatles' music well and could discuss them song by song. I'd be having it with someone who was listening to Kenny G and Michael Bolton while I was growing up to PE and Fugazi, and who soon abandoned even Michael Bolton for a strict diet of bland Christian synth pop.
In my conversations with her a year ago I'd made it clear that I would limit the Beatles exposure to the early songs, and she'd led me to believe that a year from then (i.e. this Christmas, 2 days ago) it would be an acceptable present. And she acted that way in the moment, and then apparently confiscated the present after I split.
onetet said:dwyhajlo, you're not out of line. I posted this partly to see if my concern for how the kid's being raised is valid. I want to respect her right to raise her kid as she sees fit -- as long as she's not causing him harm or denying him a healthy life. I'm trying to gauge when and if restricted access to music enters that territory. IMO it does -- it's certainly something that caused me pain growing up, and my mom (this kid's grandma) wasn't even as restrictive -- but maybe that view's not generally shared.
I think it might also be partly be because a lot of people just can't relate to your viewpoint because they lack the same experience as you. From what I can tell from reading these fora, most people had childhood experiences that were probably quite different from your own and just might not be able to relate.
To me, your sister's somewhat erratic behavior suggests that she doesn't totally have this whole thing set in stone and that she's probably just making most of this up on the fly. You should see this as an opportunity to sit down with her and to sketch out some relatively solid boundaries for what she would consider acceptable and what she would consider unacceptable.
If she's the type of person who doesn't know anything about the music of The Beatles, then maybe you should sit her down and force her to listen to it, so that she can at least have an "informed opinion". Even if she still says no to The Beatles, then at least you can use this as a starting point for knowing what's no good, but also as a starting point for getting the kid some music that he would be OK with.
I feel like I'm just repeating myself at this point. I hope that this was at least a bit helpful in some way?
I think it might also be partly be because a lot of people just can't relate to your viewpoint because they lack the same experience as you. From what I can tell from reading these fora, most people had childhood experiences that were probably quite different from your own and just might not be able to relate.
To me, your sister's somewhat erratic behavior suggests that she doesn't totally have this whole thing set in stone and that she's probably just making most of this up on the fly. You should see this as an opportunity to sit down with her and to sketch out some relatively solid boundaries for what she would consider acceptable and what she would consider unacceptable.
If she's the type of person who doesn't know anything about the music of The Beatles, then maybe you should sit her down and force her to listen to it, so that she can at least have an "informed opinion". Even if she still says no to The Beatles, then at least you can use this as a starting point for knowing what's no good, but also as a starting point for getting the kid some music that he would be OK with.
I feel like I'm just repeating myself at this point. I hope that this was at least a bit helpful in some way?
I don't know how this one slipped my mind but Rance Allen Group would be perfect. All their songs are religious, and their shit is dope.
There's a couple good comps of their stuff easily available on Amazon and you can peep short excerpts of each song as well.
http://www.amazon.com/Soulful-Experience-Rance-Allen-Group/dp/B000000ZI1/ref=sr_1_9?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1293493087&sr=1-9
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Rance-Allen-Group/dp/B000000ZJL/ref=sr_1_5?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1293493087&sr=1-5
http://www.amazon.com/Let-Music-Down-Rance-Allen/dp/B000000ZNK/ref=sr_1_10?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1293493087&sr=1-10
Here's two cuts from some of those comps.
There's a couple good comps of their stuff easily available on Amazon and you can peep short excerpts of each song as well.
http://www.amazon.com/Soulful-Experience-Rance-Allen-Group/dp/B000000ZI1/ref=sr_1_9?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1293493087&sr=1-9
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Rance-Allen-Group/dp/B000000ZJL/ref=sr_1_5?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1293493087&sr=1-5
http://www.amazon.com/Let-Music-Down-Rance-Allen/dp/B000000ZNK/ref=sr_1_10?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1293493087&sr=1-10
Here's two cuts from some of those comps.
Guest
Another thing: if she's at all like my family and I were, it's not about the Beatles being risqu??, per se. It's about them not being Christian. It's a mental block that these sorts of fundamentalist Christians have. Again: it's a conscious choice they make to remain in the bubble by limiting their outside stimuli.
I'm sure your sister only wants what she believes is best for her son - I don't know her so don't want to comment. It's tough being a parent though. There is much worse stuff out there nowadays than the Beatles!!!
However, on another note, I just don't get that whole 'bubble' thing. Christ never hid himself away from the rest of the world, he mixed with all kinds of down & outs and got a lot of flack from religious people because of this. Christians who separate themselves from the rest of the world are not interpreting the Bible correctly in my humble opinion...
However, on another note, I just don't get that whole 'bubble' thing. Christ never hid himself away from the rest of the world, he mixed with all kinds of down & outs and got a lot of flack from religious people because of this. Christians who separate themselves from the rest of the world are not interpreting the Bible correctly in my humble opinion...
Guest
I read the following and immediately thought of this thread.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/07/bill-zeller-dead-princeto_n_805689.html
The guy's suicide note is sad and amazing. What a loss.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/07/bill-zeller-dead-princeto_n_805689.html
The guy's suicide note is sad and amazing. What a loss.
