Soul Strut 100: # 25 - Nas - Illmatic
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james said:Is it accurate to say that Illmatic was largely responsible for making the multiple-hot-producers album acceptable to Real Heads????
From my 1990s vantage point out in the sticks, it seemed like before Illmatic all the underground rappers all had "their" sound and "their" crew, including "their" producer, and the idea of having a different producer on every track was considered the domain of wannabe-sellouts who were chasing a bunch of different audiences by getting tracks from whoever was hot at the moment. After Illmatic, though, that shit didn't seem like such a big deal. And of course now it's commonplace.
Was Illmatic in fact the pivot point for all that, or was I just projecting?
Non-issue to me.
From my 1990s vantage point out in the sticks, it seemed like before Illmatic all the underground rappers all had "their" sound and "their" crew, including "their" producer, and the idea of having a different producer on every track was considered the domain of wannabe-sellouts who were chasing a bunch of different audiences by getting tracks from whoever was hot at the moment. After Illmatic, though, that shit didn't seem like such a big deal. And of course now it's commonplace.
Was Illmatic in fact the pivot point for all that, or was I just projecting?
Non-issue to me.
Jonny_Paycheck said:batmon said:Overrated
ha. I'll bite
B Diddy replaces Illmatic in the canon with _____________ .
Go!
I have no problem w/ its SS Rank.
Ive been on record here before about Illmatic and dudes didnt really get it.
Before the album dropped, singles ( not the officially released joints) were already on mix tapes(and not some real heads underground shit either) throughout the city which was after Halftime got overplayed.
So by the time the album drops as a whole we only get like 5 new songs.
Now niggas is talmbout 5 mics for for half an album of material? Im not hearin it. How can u get possible excited or blown away? When you heard half the shit already. Plus the Hip Hop radio shoes were pumpin joints before the release. That how much buzz Nas had before the album dropped.
Then you got The Source telling cats its a 5 mic joint.......im sorry my standards are different than that.
Does that diminish what it did for "revitalizing" NYC Hip Hop (which is another inflated myth)? Not at all. But dang.
I dont wanna hear no emotional jumpin to conclusion shit like im callin the art wack either.
Its like dudes talmbout Ladi Dadi 12" way way after the shit was OLD from the live tape.
Shit was already a damn National Anthem before it went to wax. How are u blown away?
ha. I'll bite
B Diddy replaces Illmatic in the canon with _____________ .
Go!
I have no problem w/ its SS Rank.
Ive been on record here before about Illmatic and dudes didnt really get it.
Before the album dropped, singles ( not the officially released joints) were already on mix tapes(and not some real heads underground shit either) throughout the city which was after Halftime got overplayed.
So by the time the album drops as a whole we only get like 5 new songs.
Now niggas is talmbout 5 mics for for half an album of material? Im not hearin it. How can u get possible excited or blown away? When you heard half the shit already. Plus the Hip Hop radio shoes were pumpin joints before the release. That how much buzz Nas had before the album dropped.
Then you got The Source telling cats its a 5 mic joint.......im sorry my standards are different than that.
Does that diminish what it did for "revitalizing" NYC Hip Hop (which is another inflated myth)? Not at all. But dang.
I dont wanna hear no emotional jumpin to conclusion shit like im callin the art wack either.
Its like dudes talmbout Ladi Dadi 12" way way after the shit was OLD from the live tape.
Shit was already a damn National Anthem before it went to wax. How are u blown away?
Jonny_Paycheck said:james said:Is it accurate to say that Illmatic was largely responsible for making the multiple-hot-producers album acceptable to Real Heads????
From my 1990s vantage point out in the sticks, it seemed like before Illmatic all the underground rappers all had "their" sound and "their" crew, including "their" producer, and the idea of having a different producer on every track was considered the domain of wannabe-sellouts who were chasing a bunch of different audiences by getting tracks from whoever was hot at the moment. After Illmatic, though, that shit didn't seem like such a big deal. And of course now it's commonplace.
Was Illmatic in fact the pivot point for all that, or was I just projecting?
Sort of yeah, but sort of no, right?
I mean sure, Nas had Premier and Pete Rock and Q-Tip on there, but Large was his mentor (kind of) and L.G. was like, extended family from QB. And it's not like Large, Premo, Pete and Tip didn't know each other pretty well and (kind of) dig together and trade ideas, right?
So in a sense, you're right, but also, I think that's an idea that's rolled from a snowball to an avalanche - it's kind of a small thing, even though it seems like a big deal. It's not like he went out and got Clark Kent, DJ Quik, a bunch of other unrelated, random dudes.
Yeah, I mean, I guess a third possibility is that even though the producers assembled were not as wildly diverse as it might have seemed to the casual observer, and even though Illmatic wasn't the first record to do it, Illmatic might have the first to so heavily publicize the practice, to make it such an integral part of the public mythology.
I remember that everything--everything--I read or saw or heard about that record worked the From Many Masters One Masterpiece angle to an extent that I'd not seen before.
From my 1990s vantage point out in the sticks, it seemed like before Illmatic all the underground rappers all had "their" sound and "their" crew, including "their" producer, and the idea of having a different producer on every track was considered the domain of wannabe-sellouts who were chasing a bunch of different audiences by getting tracks from whoever was hot at the moment. After Illmatic, though, that shit didn't seem like such a big deal. And of course now it's commonplace.
Was Illmatic in fact the pivot point for all that, or was I just projecting?
Sort of yeah, but sort of no, right?
I mean sure, Nas had Premier and Pete Rock and Q-Tip on there, but Large was his mentor (kind of) and L.G. was like, extended family from QB. And it's not like Large, Premo, Pete and Tip didn't know each other pretty well and (kind of) dig together and trade ideas, right?
So in a sense, you're right, but also, I think that's an idea that's rolled from a snowball to an avalanche - it's kind of a small thing, even though it seems like a big deal. It's not like he went out and got Clark Kent, DJ Quik, a bunch of other unrelated, random dudes.
Yeah, I mean, I guess a third possibility is that even though the producers assembled were not as wildly diverse as it might have seemed to the casual observer, and even though Illmatic wasn't the first record to do it, Illmatic might have the first to so heavily publicize the practice, to make it such an integral part of the public mythology.
I remember that everything--everything--I read or saw or heard about that record worked the From Many Masters One Masterpiece angle to an extent that I'd not seen before.
HarveyCanal said:james said:Is it accurate to say that Illmatic was largely responsible for making the multiple-hot-producers album acceptable to Real Heads????
From my 1990s vantage point out in the sticks, it seemed like before Illmatic all the underground rappers all had "their" sound and "their" crew, including "their" producer, and the idea of having a different producer on every track was considered the domain of wannabe-sellouts who were chasing a bunch of different audiences by getting tracks from whoever was hot at the moment. After Illmatic, though, that shit didn't seem like such a big deal. And of course now it's commonplace.
Was Illmatic in fact the pivot point for all that, or was I just projecting?
Non-issue to me.
Oh, it's not an issue to me, either. Just a small historical/cultural point that I'm curious about.
From my 1990s vantage point out in the sticks, it seemed like before Illmatic all the underground rappers all had "their" sound and "their" crew, including "their" producer, and the idea of having a different producer on every track was considered the domain of wannabe-sellouts who were chasing a bunch of different audiences by getting tracks from whoever was hot at the moment. After Illmatic, though, that shit didn't seem like such a big deal. And of course now it's commonplace.
Was Illmatic in fact the pivot point for all that, or was I just projecting?
Non-issue to me.
Oh, it's not an issue to me, either. Just a small historical/cultural point that I'm curious about.
the whole reason like half the album was on mixtape before the album dropped was BECAUSE it was that ill.
people could not wait.
BATMON is acting like dudes would make a joint, leak it, and then be like, "oh shit, we've gotta finish the album". And then only came up with 5 more joints.
That's not how I understand these things to work, maybe I'm wrong.
I don't see how you could call the record as a whole overrated with the reasoning being that you heard half of it before it dropped. And then say you're not critiquing the art. So it's overrated because the marketing and label admin was not up to snuff?
people could not wait.
BATMON is acting like dudes would make a joint, leak it, and then be like, "oh shit, we've gotta finish the album". And then only came up with 5 more joints.
That's not how I understand these things to work, maybe I'm wrong.
I don't see how you could call the record as a whole overrated with the reasoning being that you heard half of it before it dropped. And then say you're not critiquing the art. So it's overrated because the marketing and label admin was not up to snuff?
Jonny_Paycheck said:the whole reason like half the album was on mixtape before the album dropped was BECAUSE it was that ill.
people could not wait.
BATMON is acting like dudes would make a joint, leak it, and then be like, "oh shit, we've gotta finish the album". And then only came up with 5 more joints.
That's not how I understand these things to work, maybe I'm wrong.
I don't see how you could call the record as a whole overrated with the reasoning being that you heard half of it before it dropped. And then say you're not critiquing the art. So it's overrated because the marketing and label admin was not up to snuff?
10 songs. One is an Intro and one is Halftime from a long minute ago.
8 songs left. 3 of them get overplayed. 5 are new to everyone when the album drops.............. Instant Classic!!!!!!!
:icallbullshit:
I wish I wasnt in NYC and heard the shit in one concentrated bomb.
people could not wait.
BATMON is acting like dudes would make a joint, leak it, and then be like, "oh shit, we've gotta finish the album". And then only came up with 5 more joints.
That's not how I understand these things to work, maybe I'm wrong.
I don't see how you could call the record as a whole overrated with the reasoning being that you heard half of it before it dropped. And then say you're not critiquing the art. So it's overrated because the marketing and label admin was not up to snuff?
10 songs. One is an Intro and one is Halftime from a long minute ago.
8 songs left. 3 of them get overplayed. 5 are new to everyone when the album drops.............. Instant Classic!!!!!!!
:icallbullshit:
I wish I wasnt in NYC and heard the shit in one concentrated bomb.
james said:Jonny_Paycheck said:So it's overrated because the marketing and label admin was not up to snuff?
Absolutely. I can't hear "Halftime" without thinking of Michael Rapaport. That's a mic-and-a-half deduction, right there.
he was ok in bamboozled, otherwise i agree.
Absolutely. I can't hear "Halftime" without thinking of Michael Rapaport. That's a mic-and-a-half deduction, right there.
he was ok in bamboozled, otherwise i agree.
james said:Jonny_Paycheck said:So it's overrated because the marketing and label admin was not up to snuff?
Absolutely. I can't hear "Halftime" without thinking of Michael Rapaport. That's a mic-and-a-half deduction, right there.
While I fully support this contention (ha!), I've never gotten enough of Halftime. The World Is Yours and One Love are the songs on there that I have trouble stomaching nowadays. But the few non-singles on the album (Memory Lane, One Time 4 Your Mind & Represent) more than carry that burden for me.
Absolutely. I can't hear "Halftime" without thinking of Michael Rapaport. That's a mic-and-a-half deduction, right there.
While I fully support this contention (ha!), I've never gotten enough of Halftime. The World Is Yours and One Love are the songs on there that I have trouble stomaching nowadays. But the few non-singles on the album (Memory Lane, One Time 4 Your Mind & Represent) more than carry that burden for me.
SIRUS said:swv came about before.
Oh shit--how could I forget?!
When they first dropped, all three of them were in ads and shit wearing those unfashionably severe Terminator shades, so for a good while I really thought "SWV" stood for "Sisters Without Vision"--like being blind was their gimmick or something. I was quite the knucklehead.
Oh shit--how could I forget?!
When they first dropped, all three of them were in ads and shit wearing those unfashionably severe Terminator shades, so for a good while I really thought "SWV" stood for "Sisters Without Vision"--like being blind was their gimmick or something. I was quite the knucklehead.
The World Is Yours is the only one that lowers the quality for me. I like the concise quality of the album though. If the Wu Tang solos at around the same time were the same length we might be talking about them in almost the same breath.
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