The I dont like Soccer thread
- Thread starter DJ_WubWub
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this more than your other argument.
to be honest though, the best argument i have heard tends to follow these lines:
In almost all American team sports there is a profound person that matters greatly to the game at hand, but never plays a minute. That person is the Coach. With perhaps the exception of Hockey, American sports culture is designed so that the Coach can play a very critical role in a game at almost any given minute. Calling time-outs to reset player responsibilities (NBA/NFL). Switching out key players multiple times in a game (MLB). Or in fact calling the play itself (NFL). In each sport, the Coach can at almost any time stop play or change the direction the game is going by making a decision.
The same is not true in Soccer/Football. Bar the line-up of a team, and having only 3 chances to switch players, a Soccer manager can do very little after a game has started to change the outcome. In short, it is all up to the players, and not just as extensions of a play itself.
My personal opinion is that Americans tend to enjoy that Coaching element of sports, and perhaps more so than the rest of the soccer loving world. This is not to say that its a zero-sum game in which you can only enjoy one sport or the other, but I do believe there is some element of this that Americans find engaging.
But as for your argument above Doc (i.e. - a thrilling game ends in a tie), i think there is more to add there too. Football requires a lot of build up as opposed to short bursts of activity. Preference for many people (not just Americans) is to prefer the latter. But i would agree with you, that in most circumstances Americans do like seeing a winner in their sporting events.
[rant time]
And the bigger issue i think is how Soccer/Football deals with penalties/cheating/etc. In that, in doesn't deal with it.
FIFA has established a set a rules in which only a few officials can radically change the game and there is little anyone can do during a game to impact how those calls are going.
NFL official makes a horrible call: challenge the play
MLB ump misses a lot of strikes: manager goes out (during the game) and confronts the ump (won't necessarily change the play, but the assumption is something is being 'done' about bad calls)
NBA coaches also get a lot of time to vent on bad calls, and replays can allow for correct calls in the future.
Americans, through replays or recourse, like to see correct calls made on a game. Football would argue this too, but the reality is that human error in official calls is a huge element of the game that the footballing masses love to hate. Does anyone ever really anticipate FIFA to allow video replay? I would suggest not.
And while it does occur in the NBA, diving is another element of Football that i don't think a lot of Americans can really get behind. Especially for the fact that FIFA has no desire to ever correct what is perceived as "cheating". Americans prefer their cheaters to work off camera (i.e. just take performance enhancing drugs) as opposed to cheating directly on the field of play.
Shows you how little I know....I figured that Maradona dude was running shit on the sidelines...and starring in 70's porn flicks during halftime!!
Rockadelic said:The US could win the World Cup and it would still not be a big deal here.
See: Lance Armstrong
Now this I disagree with.
First off, comparing Soccer to Cycling is moronic... you're talking about an actual game, between two sides, to a bunch of dudes biking through France. One is actually a sport that many Americans play and one sounds like something to do on vacation.
Second off, speaking of many Americans... within 10, 20 years you are going to see the majority of America being into soccer. Why? Because they will hail from countries with serious soccer culture and fandom. This is part of the America We Know And Love Being Taken From Us By Maxicans And Socialists. Get ready for it.
Third off, speaking of many Americans... millions of kids all over the country play competitive soccer as kids. Their parents are basically the core marketing target for minivans. The only reason we don't have a sick homegrown Soccer industry is because there's not the kind of financial incentives and popular cult-status that football, basketball, and baseball all hold through high school and into the pros. Again, within 10-20 years I think that will change. We're already growing great soccer players they just have absolutely no reason to continue playing past their childhoods.
See: Lance Armstrong
Now this I disagree with.
First off, comparing Soccer to Cycling is moronic... you're talking about an actual game, between two sides, to a bunch of dudes biking through France. One is actually a sport that many Americans play and one sounds like something to do on vacation.
Second off, speaking of many Americans... within 10, 20 years you are going to see the majority of America being into soccer. Why? Because they will hail from countries with serious soccer culture and fandom. This is part of the America We Know And Love Being Taken From Us By Maxicans And Socialists. Get ready for it.
Third off, speaking of many Americans... millions of kids all over the country play competitive soccer as kids. Their parents are basically the core marketing target for minivans. The only reason we don't have a sick homegrown Soccer industry is because there's not the kind of financial incentives and popular cult-status that football, basketball, and baseball all hold through high school and into the pros. Again, within 10-20 years I think that will change. We're already growing great soccer players they just have absolutely no reason to continue playing past their childhoods.
Jonny_Paycheck said:
Second off, speaking of many Americans... within 10, 20 years you are going to see the majority of America being into soccer. Why? Because they will hail from countries with serious soccer culture and fandom. This is part of the America We Know And Love Being Taken From Us By Maxicans And Socialists. Get ready for it.
^^^THIS. All day, everyday.
Related aside: last Thursday, I was working at a cafe in El Serreno (predominantly Latino neighborhood to the east of where I live) and when the Mexico/France game was on, at least half or more of the folks watching and rooting on Mexico were Chicano dudes rocking Lakers gear. Saying.
I also think JP's third point - the relative scarcity of $$$ to help fund a professional soccer league that could compete with the NBA/NFL/MLB/NHL is a strong one too.
To sum up a lot of different points at once, I just think that professional soccer in American still *feels* like it's in its infancy. I bet most Americans aren't even aware there's an MLS (and frankly, I'm not convinced they should be aware).
re: JLee's point. I don't buy this "lack of a coach" argument at all. I just finished watch two months of playoff basketball and I'm still not 100% certain what NBA coaches do except make pithy speeches about "being aggressive" or "trusting your teammates" and occassionally, diagramming some X and O shit. But for the normal flow of the game, I just see 10 dudes on a court.
Second off, speaking of many Americans... within 10, 20 years you are going to see the majority of America being into soccer. Why? Because they will hail from countries with serious soccer culture and fandom. This is part of the America We Know And Love Being Taken From Us By Maxicans And Socialists. Get ready for it.
^^^THIS. All day, everyday.
Related aside: last Thursday, I was working at a cafe in El Serreno (predominantly Latino neighborhood to the east of where I live) and when the Mexico/France game was on, at least half or more of the folks watching and rooting on Mexico were Chicano dudes rocking Lakers gear. Saying.
I also think JP's third point - the relative scarcity of $$$ to help fund a professional soccer league that could compete with the NBA/NFL/MLB/NHL is a strong one too.
To sum up a lot of different points at once, I just think that professional soccer in American still *feels* like it's in its infancy. I bet most Americans aren't even aware there's an MLS (and frankly, I'm not convinced they should be aware).
re: JLee's point. I don't buy this "lack of a coach" argument at all. I just finished watch two months of playoff basketball and I'm still not 100% certain what NBA coaches do except make pithy speeches about "being aggressive" or "trusting your teammates" and occassionally, diagramming some X and O shit. But for the normal flow of the game, I just see 10 dudes on a court.
jlee said:Americans prefer their cheaters to work off camera (i.e. just take performance enhancing drugs) as opposed to cheating directly on the field of play.
Pine Tar, Vasaline under the brim, Sandpaper,saliva, sticky gums for Safetys, Flopping, etc.
There's plenty of on court/field cheating in American Sport.
Im fine w/ the World Cup, just take off the USA/Mexico/Brazil/Nigeria/Greece denim jacket while im having lunch thank you. It like the Puerto Rican Day Parade meets Crayola Crayons up this mutha.
Pine Tar, Vasaline under the brim, Sandpaper,saliva, sticky gums for Safetys, Flopping, etc.
There's plenty of on court/field cheating in American Sport.
Im fine w/ the World Cup, just take off the USA/Mexico/Brazil/Nigeria/Greece denim jacket while im having lunch thank you. It like the Puerto Rican Day Parade meets Crayola Crayons up this mutha.
Jonny_Paycheck said:Rockadelic said:The US could win the World Cup and it would still not be a big deal here.
See: Lance Armstrong
Now this I disagree with.
First off, comparing Soccer to Cycling is moronic... you're talking about an actual game, between two sides, to a bunch of dudes biking through France. One is actually a sport that many Americans play and one sounds like something to do on vacation. .
FAIL
See: Lance Armstrong
Now this I disagree with.
First off, comparing Soccer to Cycling is moronic... you're talking about an actual game, between two sides, to a bunch of dudes biking through France. One is actually a sport that many Americans play and one sounds like something to do on vacation. .
FAIL
Jonny_Paycheck said:Rockadelic said:The US could win the World Cup and it would still not be a big deal here.
See: Lance Armstrong
Now this I disagree with.
First off, comparing Soccer to Cycling is moronic... you're talking about an actual game, between two sides, to a bunch of dudes biking through France. One is actually a sport that many Americans play and one sounds like something to do on vacation.
Second off, speaking of many Americans... within 10, 20 years you are going to see the majority of America being into soccer. Why? Because they will hail from countries with serious soccer culture and fandom. This is part of the America We Know And Love Being Taken From Us By Maxicans And Socialists. Get ready for it.
Third off, speaking of many Americans... millions of kids all over the country play competitive soccer as kids. Their parents are basically the core marketing target for minivans. The only reason we don't have a sick homegrown Soccer industry is because there's not the kind of financial incentives and popular cult-status that football, basketball, and baseball all hold through high school and into the pros. Again, within 10-20 years I think that will change. We're already growing great soccer players they just have absolutely no reason to continue playing past their childhoods.
When I've attended the Euro Bike show in Germany every Euro I met was giddy over the fact that I was from Dallas and might know Lance Armstrong....his popularity there is mind boggling while virtually non-existant here.
Soccer has been hailed as the "next big thing in the next 10-20 years" for 10-20 year plus....hasn't happened and I don't believe I'll see it supplant the other 4 sports in popularity here in my lifetime....and Hockey already draws more crickets than fans on TV.
You may be right.....but when an American dominated one of the biggest sporting events in the world, the Tour De France, no one here gave a rats ass......yet I have the opportunity to run down 100's of cyclists every weekend!
See: Lance Armstrong
Now this I disagree with.
First off, comparing Soccer to Cycling is moronic... you're talking about an actual game, between two sides, to a bunch of dudes biking through France. One is actually a sport that many Americans play and one sounds like something to do on vacation.
Second off, speaking of many Americans... within 10, 20 years you are going to see the majority of America being into soccer. Why? Because they will hail from countries with serious soccer culture and fandom. This is part of the America We Know And Love Being Taken From Us By Maxicans And Socialists. Get ready for it.
Third off, speaking of many Americans... millions of kids all over the country play competitive soccer as kids. Their parents are basically the core marketing target for minivans. The only reason we don't have a sick homegrown Soccer industry is because there's not the kind of financial incentives and popular cult-status that football, basketball, and baseball all hold through high school and into the pros. Again, within 10-20 years I think that will change. We're already growing great soccer players they just have absolutely no reason to continue playing past their childhoods.
When I've attended the Euro Bike show in Germany every Euro I met was giddy over the fact that I was from Dallas and might know Lance Armstrong....his popularity there is mind boggling while virtually non-existant here.
Soccer has been hailed as the "next big thing in the next 10-20 years" for 10-20 year plus....hasn't happened and I don't believe I'll see it supplant the other 4 sports in popularity here in my lifetime....and Hockey already draws more crickets than fans on TV.
You may be right.....but when an American dominated one of the biggest sporting events in the world, the Tour De France, no one here gave a rats ass......yet I have the opportunity to run down 100's of cyclists every weekend!
I love futbol.
Part of what makes it so great is that there are so few gols. When they finally hit one it's super climactic.
It's a pretty raw sport, too. I see follies getting dragged off the field all day.
Part of what makes it so great is that there are so few gols. When they finally hit one it's super climactic.
It's a pretty raw sport, too. I see follies getting dragged off the field all day.
Rockadelic said:
Soccer has been hailed as the "next big thing in the next 10-20 years" for 10-20 year plus....hasn't happened and I don't believe I'll see it supplant the other 4 sports in popularity here in my lifetime....and Hockey already draws more crickets than fans on TV.
the only reason i think this may change now is because of the internet. 20 years ago, an American kid who wanted to see the best players in the world playing soccer had to hope someone had a satellite feed as no TV station was showing any games. And if you did become a fan of a player via the world cup ('94 - Jurgen Klinsmann perhaps) you had no viable opportunity to watch him play club football in the following year. This has changed now. If a kid in California sees Wayne Rooney and falls in love with him, he/she will find it much easier to follow their new favorite player. Idolizing your favorite players is huge in building a sport, and prior to the past 5-10 years, most Americans had no way of following the best players.
as Odub noted, with more access to watching top-level Football/Soccer on tv or the internet, i think more and more Americans will become more interested. Will it surpass the NFL in my life time, doubtful, but I do think 10 years from now we are going to find that a good percentage of Americans are watching Soccer matches (be it MLS, or in Europe).
Soccer has been hailed as the "next big thing in the next 10-20 years" for 10-20 year plus....hasn't happened and I don't believe I'll see it supplant the other 4 sports in popularity here in my lifetime....and Hockey already draws more crickets than fans on TV.
the only reason i think this may change now is because of the internet. 20 years ago, an American kid who wanted to see the best players in the world playing soccer had to hope someone had a satellite feed as no TV station was showing any games. And if you did become a fan of a player via the world cup ('94 - Jurgen Klinsmann perhaps) you had no viable opportunity to watch him play club football in the following year. This has changed now. If a kid in California sees Wayne Rooney and falls in love with him, he/she will find it much easier to follow their new favorite player. Idolizing your favorite players is huge in building a sport, and prior to the past 5-10 years, most Americans had no way of following the best players.
as Odub noted, with more access to watching top-level Football/Soccer on tv or the internet, i think more and more Americans will become more interested. Will it surpass the NFL in my life time, doubtful, but I do think 10 years from now we are going to find that a good percentage of Americans are watching Soccer matches (be it MLS, or in Europe).
In the 70's Pele came over and played for the NY Cosmos and was going to make Soccer as big in America as it was around the world.
Latest attempt was Beckham, but I'm willing to bet more Americans have seen him and his wife on "Access Hollywood" than actually playing in a game.
Latest attempt was Beckham, but I'm willing to bet more Americans have seen him and his wife on "Access Hollywood" than actually playing in a game.
Rockadelic said:In the 70's Pele came over and played for the NY Cosmos and was going to make Soccer as big in America as it was around the world.
Latest attempt was Beckham, but I'm willing to bet more Americans have seen him and his wife on "Access Hollywood" than actually playing in a game.
and if i am not mistaken, the cosmos were almost selling out Giants stadium for a time. And Beckham, for all that i despise about him, has undoubtedly brought more attention to the game. The point being that big players do attract a lot of attention to a sport.
my point though is that growing up in the 80's/90's, the only place i could watch professional soccer was on Spanish speaking TV once a week. Had i the opportunity to watch Italian or German club play, I may have followed the sport a lot more.
whether or not it is the MLS, i think in the years to come you will see more Americans following top level Soccer. Last season you could turn on Fox-Soccer Network or ESPN 2 and see great players each week. Fox was so confident about European soccer this year that it showed the UEFA final on a Saturday on the Fox channel (as opposed to their soccer channel). 15-20 years ago, that wasn't even a possibility unless you had satellite TV.
Latest attempt was Beckham, but I'm willing to bet more Americans have seen him and his wife on "Access Hollywood" than actually playing in a game.
and if i am not mistaken, the cosmos were almost selling out Giants stadium for a time. And Beckham, for all that i despise about him, has undoubtedly brought more attention to the game. The point being that big players do attract a lot of attention to a sport.
my point though is that growing up in the 80's/90's, the only place i could watch professional soccer was on Spanish speaking TV once a week. Had i the opportunity to watch Italian or German club play, I may have followed the sport a lot more.
whether or not it is the MLS, i think in the years to come you will see more Americans following top level Soccer. Last season you could turn on Fox-Soccer Network or ESPN 2 and see great players each week. Fox was so confident about European soccer this year that it showed the UEFA final on a Saturday on the Fox channel (as opposed to their soccer channel). 15-20 years ago, that wasn't even a possibility unless you had satellite TV.
Rockadelic said:In the 70's Pele came over and played for the NY Cosmos and was going to make Soccer as big in America as it was around the world.
.
It was big in my neighborhood back then...we were all Tampa Bay Rowdies fans.
My next door neighbor's older brother played for his high school team, as did one of his friends farther down the street...so I wound up going to grip of Archbishop Shaw vs. ______ games.
My dad had played soccer back while he was in college. My uncle and his buddies were big into it as well. We were all thinking it was time to get a youth league started up through the same organization that hosted our bigtime football, basketball, and baseball leagues. So my dad assumed the position of coach and off we went.
Well, only about 12 dudes showed up for try-outs and then for the next practice we were down to like 7. So that ended that right there.
Aside from a select number of high schools having teams, there were no youth soccer leagues throughout New Orleans, that at least I knew of, at the time. This was around '81.
.
It was big in my neighborhood back then...we were all Tampa Bay Rowdies fans.
My next door neighbor's older brother played for his high school team, as did one of his friends farther down the street...so I wound up going to grip of Archbishop Shaw vs. ______ games.
My dad had played soccer back while he was in college. My uncle and his buddies were big into it as well. We were all thinking it was time to get a youth league started up through the same organization that hosted our bigtime football, basketball, and baseball leagues. So my dad assumed the position of coach and off we went.
Well, only about 12 dudes showed up for try-outs and then for the next practice we were down to like 7. So that ended that right there.
Aside from a select number of high schools having teams, there were no youth soccer leagues throughout New Orleans, that at least I knew of, at the time. This was around '81.
Snapping said:The biggest obstacle to Soccer taking off in the US is that the networks hate showing it. With no timeouts they get almost no ad revenue. Its like the opposite of basketball or football which are full of built in pauses when commercial can air.
...and without advertising/sponsor $$$, you can't fund a professional league that would create the kind of incentive to draw both overseas players as well as lure homegrown players away from other American pro sports.
It's a bit chicken/egg of course but I think both the lack of professional soccer broadcasting AND the lack of money circulating in the league are both hinderances. BUT, as others have also pointed out, Americans already have a ridiculous number of pro sports to cheer on. The fact that we don't seem to care about soccer so much isn't necessarily about soccer; it's about the strength of basketball, baseball and football.
...and without advertising/sponsor $$$, you can't fund a professional league that would create the kind of incentive to draw both overseas players as well as lure homegrown players away from other American pro sports.
It's a bit chicken/egg of course but I think both the lack of professional soccer broadcasting AND the lack of money circulating in the league are both hinderances. BUT, as others have also pointed out, Americans already have a ridiculous number of pro sports to cheer on. The fact that we don't seem to care about soccer so much isn't necessarily about soccer; it's about the strength of basketball, baseball and football.
Tour De France is well known in Europe, but it's not that popular. The majority of people wouldn't be able to pick Lance Armstrong out of a line up.
The World Cup is hugely popular in most countries across the World, apart from the US. I mean WHOLE countries almost come to a standstill when their teams play.
I think if the US actually won the World Cup it would be seen as a huge coup. Winning at a sport you don't even care about, cause YOU"RE NO.1! Would that not change minds?
There are so many reason football hasn't caught on in America, David Simon could make a mini series about it. Bringing in a big (but well passed their best) star is never going to change things. It has to start from the 'grass roots' as they say. Young boys all over the world grow up idolizing and emulating their favourite soccer players, and some grow up to be emulated them selves. Until America can get there and create their own star I doubt things will change. But America may never get into it, honestly the rest of the World is probably quite happy about that.
The World Cup is hugely popular in most countries across the World, apart from the US. I mean WHOLE countries almost come to a standstill when their teams play.
I think if the US actually won the World Cup it would be seen as a huge coup. Winning at a sport you don't even care about, cause YOU"RE NO.1! Would that not change minds?
There are so many reason football hasn't caught on in America, David Simon could make a mini series about it. Bringing in a big (but well passed their best) star is never going to change things. It has to start from the 'grass roots' as they say. Young boys all over the world grow up idolizing and emulating their favourite soccer players, and some grow up to be emulated them selves. Until America can get there and create their own star I doubt things will change. But America may never get into it, honestly the rest of the World is probably quite happy about that.
Jonny_Paycheck said:Rockadelic said:
First off, comparing Soccer to Cycling is moronic... you're talking about an actual game, between two sides, to a bunch of dudes biking through France. One is actually a sport that many Americans play and one sounds like something to do on vacation.
:off_the_wall:
First off, comparing Soccer to Cycling is moronic... you're talking about an actual game, between two sides, to a bunch of dudes biking through France. One is actually a sport that many Americans play and one sounds like something to do on vacation.
:off_the_wall:
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