Too Many Record Stores

[Horseleech]

overflo said:Horseleech said:overflo said:Another scenario is when a store buys a collection off someone. So, 500 records in there & they offer say $1/each for the lot. Then they find 2 or 3 records that go for $100 or more. They only paid $1 for them.




No.





Invariably a collection like you described has many records that are worthless. The breakdown is really that they didn't pay anything for those and they paid a much higher per unit price for the records they actually wanted.





At least that's how it works if they have any idea what they are doing.




Yes.





They passed on the worthless. They paid only 25 cents for some while others they paid say $2 or $3 bucks for yielding an average of $1/record. If they know what they are doing, they didn't buy the junk at all.




Whatever. You're the expert...

 

[DB_Cooper]

Horseleech said:


Whatever. You're the expert...




SPEAK NOT ON WHAT YOU KNOW NOT HORSELEECH.





b/w





You are exhibiting remarkable restraint. Kudos.

 

[LoopDreams]

Reading through this thread made me so jealous, damn you american dudes who live in 4 mill + cities and your infestation of record stores. Here the last good little spot where I sold consignment closed 2 yrs ago and since then it's like being homeless. A good store is so much more then just a place to buy music: if it's any good it's a cultural hub.


The records have dried up big time here: there's a couple of big collections ready to be sold but that's it folks, the wax has left town. Montreal's dry to, Nick's having a tough time w/ Beatnick and Edouardo's had the same shit on his wall for so long it hurts.





Carry on

 

[Rockadelic]

Who's buying and selling records in the U.S. in 2011?





Boutique Shops - Market Share -1%-3% - These stores really only exist in major cities, especially on the East & Left Coast.


Who's buying? - Local collectors who spend, visiting collectors/Tourists, DJ's.





Old School Store(20 years or older) Market Share - 10%-15% - Found in most large cities and usually sell new/used CD's as well.as vinyl


Who's buying?- Local serious collectors, newbies/$10-$15 Zeppelin/Floyd crowd, high end diggers, DJ's.





New Jack Stores(10 years or younger) - Market Share 10%-15% In every college town and most decent sized cities and carry new vinyl too..


Who's buying? - College students, hipsters, local crust diggers, high end diggers, local collectors, DJ's





The Flea Market/Antique Mall Dealer - Market Share 25% In every small town, city, everydamnwhere...dudes who "fancy themselves as record dealers".


Who's buying? - The local $3-$5 Zeppelin/Floyd crowd, diggers, DJ's.





The "Collectibles" Store - Market Share -5%-10% - Found in mid-size-larger cities and deal in Comics, Books, Etc. AND Records.


Who's buying? - Local collectors, diggers, DJ's.





Internet Sellers - Market Share 30%-40% - Ebay, Gemm, MusicStack, Discogs, various websites.


Who's Buying? - Collectors, Boutique Stores, Specialty Diggers, DJ's





Record Convention Dudes - Market Share 3%-5% - Lots of crossover from the above groups.


Who's buying? - Local collectors, dealers, diggers.





Craig Moerer - Market Share - 1%





There are probably 1/3rd as many brick/mortar record stores today as there were 25 years ago.





I've always felt that "diggers" have kept a good number of the above dealers in business and I've been very thankful for those "diggers" who, for the last 20 years, have at least contributed greatly to keeping many of these places in business so I could do my thang.

 

[Delay]

overflo said:Yes, I should have said "diggers HELP keep record stores in business". Which is my point. Diggers = customers. Record stores are in dire need of customers.





Most of the time a seller doesn't know he has a $500, so the store isn't gonna offer $200 out the gate unless the seller is savvy.





Another scenario is that the buyer doesn't know exactly what it is either. A friend told me this use to always happen at Amoeba Berkeley. In other words, buyers are trained to buy clean, sell-able records. A buyer may specialize in punk or jazz & the seller brings in a clean a stack of private library or soul records. The buyer makes what he feels like is the correct offer. By the time the records are priced the staff discovers they just got an unbelievable deal.





Another scenario is when a store buys a collection off someone. So, 500 records in there & they offer say $1/each for the lot. Then they find 2 or 3 records that go for $100 or more. They only paid $1 for them.





I'm not saying the stores motives are shady, but at the end of the day the seller isn't always taken care of properly.





Buyers usually have the advantage of knowledge to the game.





Dusty Groove paid me fairly for records back in the day. The get props.

you mean that's how capitalism works?? that's crazy!





there's a wealth of free knowledge at your fingertips... if you get caught slipping by a buyer, you should consider it an idiot tax.

 

[Jonny_Paycheck]

I think we are all talking about different ideas of what a "digger" is.





To some, a "digger" is the type of dude who is only buying underpriced or cheaply priced records... whether to grip, or to flip.





A more broad definition exists, as in someone who buys records of a more obscure bent, who may go the extra step to check out something under the radar and is looking for cool shit wherever it may be. They might have a price ceiling, they might not. It all depends on the record.





The first dude is keeping nobody in business. HCrink had the realest assessment of this type of person, one I've experienced countless times.





The second dude is definitely a valuable customer.





A smart store owner will pay what it takes to acquire the right stuff. Bottom line. Sometimes you have to pony up more than you might like, sometimes you get it for cheap. All in a day's work. Personally, I sell stuff all the time for less than I could get online; other times, I get more. Nobody's getting rich off this shit except perhaps the online and private dudes that don't have to worry about excruciating levels of overhead.

 

[The_Hook_Up]

I like how timmy dig a lot takes in NO consideration for overhead...thinking that the $100 "profit" (funny how he has no real concept of this word) on a record a store paid a few bucks for ends up as a Ben Franklin in store owner's wallet.

 

[DJ_NevilleC]

Another new store in DC just opened called Joint Custody - http://www.urbandaddy.com/dc/style/14669/Joint_Custody_Kiss_T_Shirts_Biker_Gear_and_80s_Vinyl_DC_DC_Store


Pretty decent selection including some real rarities. Better for gripping than for flipping. I see these guys at the flea markets every weekend so they're working hard for stock which is a good sign.


That makes five stores in this part of the DC. Too many? Not yet.

 

[LaserWolf]

overflo said: private library

 

[LaserWolf]

overflo said:


Another scenario is when a store buys a collection off someone. So, 500 records in there & they offer say $1/each for the lot. Then they find 2 or 3 records that go for $100 or more. They only paid $1 for them.




No.

 

[soundsreal]

kala said:time and time again???when i come up on quantity of the same 50-100 srp title and don't want to fuck w/ ebay


I have always been paid a fair price by all of the boutique stores in nyc.


usually they give me half of what they will sell it for-except academy who i do not sell the real rarer to, but only the "leftovers"







What does Academy give you for it? I've heard the owner is a fair dude.

 

[dopeshit]

overflo said:Horseleech said:overflo said:Besides, they rip people off all the time! If you see a record hanging in a store for $500 they probably paid $5, maybe less.




Aside from the fact that you are calling a number of people here crooks when you write that, it's also just plain bullshit.





Any store that does that on a remotely regular basis will not stay in business very long and this has been true for at least a decade now.




No disrespect to record store owners, but we all know where to take our records if we wanna get "low-balled". Let's bring this down to earth since there aren't a lot of $500 records floating around. Record stores pay like $3-$5 for a $20 record. Some of the largest independent record stores in the California have practiced this for decades. I've worked for them & have friends who have as well. Many post on this board. All of these stores are still in business.





Also, stores don't get $500 records in regularly, but this does happen. Call it bullshit, tell me to stop, but c'mon please people. What are you saying a store would pay for a $500 record? I bet it's nowhere near $200.





Also, someone objectively tell me how diggers are killing record stores more so than online sales, poor management, poor marketing, etc.




an insane high profit on one expensive record is sometimes just what it takes to make up for wrong investions and other regular costs that come with running a store...

 

[overflo]

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...





If you ONLY buy $1 records your collection plays great, but probably isn't of nominal value.





I heart record stores, so I'm not gonna keep breaking down how sometimes they get over.





The same reasons why hcrink says diggers won't buy the "nice" record that is fairly priced, is the same reason why I say stores aren't always willing to pay fairly; they know they can buy it off another seller eventually for cheaper.





Johnny paycheck is correct there is confusion as to what a digger is. I've been digging with DJ's & producers who drop a hundreds in one store on breaks, soul & funk records. They tour, stay busy, & have money to spend. They also call themselves diggers.

 

[herbacios tweed]

 

[JRoot]

Jonny_Paycheck said:I think we are all talking about different ideas of what a "digger" is.





To some, a "digger" is the type of dude who is only buying underpriced or cheaply priced records... whether to grip, or to flip.





A more broad definition exists, as in someone who buys records of a more obscure bent, who may go the extra step to check out something under the radar and is looking for cool shit wherever it may be. They might have a price ceiling, they might not. It all depends on the record.





The first dude is keeping nobody in business. HCrink had the realest assessment of this type of person, one I've experienced countless times.





The second dude is definitely a valuable customer.





A smart store owner will pay what it takes to acquire the right stuff. Bottom line. Sometimes you have to pony up more than you might like, sometimes you get it for cheap. All in a day's work. Personally, I sell stuff all the time for less than I could get online; other times, I get more. Nobody's getting rich off this shit except perhaps the online and private dudes that don't have to worry about excruciating levels of overhead.




Hi Jonny. I'm going to be in New York in early November. Are you going to be open say...Friday November 4 in the afternoon? Or Saturday, November 5? My record shopping windows are small these days, but I'd like to climb through if I can get my fat ass over the sill when no one's looking.





Love,


The second dude.

 

[The_Hook_Up]

overflo said:Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...





If you ONLY buy $1 records your collection plays great, but probably isn't of nominal value.





I heart record stores, so I'm not gonna keep breaking down how sometimes they get over.





The same reasons why hcrink says diggers won't buy the "nice" record that is fairly priced, is the same reason why I say stores aren't always willing to pay fairly; they know they can buy it off another seller eventually for cheaper.





Johnny paycheck is correct there is confusion as to what a digger is. I've been digging with DJ's & producers who drop a hundreds in one store on breaks, soul & funk records. They tour, stay busy, & have money to spend. They also call themselves diggers.




as someone who has worked as a buyer in an established record store, I can assure you buying collections and individual pieces is a difficult job...for the most part 95% of what is beought to you is complet garbage. Most people who are selling records to shops do not know anything about records, and that is a BAD thing, not a good thing to take advantage of. You hear ALL kinds of BS from people who want to unload records...they feel you HAVE to buy them because they WALKED to the shop, they do not understand that an LP without a cover is unsellable, they will argue with and tell you you dont know anything because you wont buy their Beatle record they claim is "original" even though you point out the URL to a website in small print on the back and tell them it cant be an original if there is a fucking URL on the jacket. You are oversimplfying the buying process immensely. IS there a game involved? Sure, just like every other business transaction...but just because I paid someone $200 for a collection of say 50 LPs and I know there is a $300 LP in there doesnt mean a $296 profit was made because that particular record was part of an average of $4 an LP, the other 49 Lps may be "meat and potatoes" LPs that will priced at $5 to $10 that might take 2 or 3 years to be purchased. Keep in mind the shop owner had to pay me for my time as an employee...just because the transaction took 10 minutes to complete doesnt mean he is only out the 1/6 of an hour's pay for that...you have to clean them, take a picture for the website or ebay, add it to the inventory and if it sells via the website or ebay, you have to pay paypal their cut, ebay fees if it was ebayed...it isnt a cut and dried "profit". The store where I worked for a number of years opened in 1989 and is still going strong, so save your "you wont be in business very long with your buying paractices" Timmy dig a lots are the BANE of a record store...thyey dont pay for records, they use stores basically as a library to check shit out at listening stations that they then try to go out into the field to buy and then will try to barter on a $10 record. "Diggers" do not keep stores in business...pure comedy.

 

[Jonny_Paycheck]

JRoot said:Jonny_Paycheck said:I think we are all talking about different ideas of what a "digger" is.





To some, a "digger" is the type of dude who is only buying underpriced or cheaply priced records... whether to grip, or to flip.





A more broad definition exists, as in someone who buys records of a more obscure bent, who may go the extra step to check out something under the radar and is looking for cool shit wherever it may be. They might have a price ceiling, they might not. It all depends on the record.





The first dude is keeping nobody in business. HCrink had the realest assessment of this type of person, one I've experienced countless times.





The second dude is definitely a valuable customer.





A smart store owner will pay what it takes to acquire the right stuff. Bottom line. Sometimes you have to pony up more than you might like, sometimes you get it for cheap. All in a day's work. Personally, I sell stuff all the time for less than I could get online; other times, I get more. Nobody's getting rich off this shit except perhaps the online and private dudes that don't have to worry about excruciating levels of overhead.




Hi Jonny. I'm going to be in New York in early November. Are you going to be open say...Friday November 4 in the afternoon? Or Saturday, November 5? My record shopping windows are small these days, but I'd like to climb through if I can get my fat ass over the sill when no one's looking.





Love,


The second dude.




Friday seems a sure bet; as for Saturday, I remain reticent. Hit me up closer to the date and I'll be able to tell you for certain.

 

[overflo]

The_Hook_Up said:overflo said:Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...





If you ONLY buy $1 records your collection plays great, but probably isn't of nominal value.





I heart record stores, so I'm not gonna keep breaking down how sometimes they get over.





The same reasons why hcrink says diggers won't buy the "nice" record that is fairly priced, is the same reason why I say stores aren't always willing to pay fairly; they know they can buy it off another seller eventually for cheaper.





Johnny paycheck is correct there is confusion as to what a digger is. I've been digging with DJ's & producers who drop a hundreds in one store on breaks, soul & funk records. They tour, stay busy, & have money to spend. They also call themselves diggers.




as someone who has worked as a buyer in an established record store, I can assure you buying collections and individual pieces is a difficult job...for the most part 95% of what is beought to you is complet garbage. Most people who are selling records to shops do not know anything about records, and that is a BAD thing, not a good thing to take advantage of. You hear ALL kinds of BS from people who want to unload records...they feel you HAVE to buy them because they WALKED to the shop, they do not understand that an LP without a cover is unsellable, they will argue with and tell you you dont know anything because you wont buy their Beatle record they claim is "original" even though you point out the URL to a website in small print on the back and tell them it cant be an original if there is a fucking URL on the jacket. You are oversimplfying the buying process immensely. IS there a game involved? Sure, just like every other business transaction...but just because I paid someone $200 for a collection of say 50 LPs and I know there is a $300 LP in there doesnt mean a $296 profit was made because that particular record was part of an average of $4 an LP, the other 49 Lps may be "meat and potatoes" LPs that will priced at $5 to $10 that might take 2 or 3 years to be purchased. Keep in mind the shop owner had to pay me for my time as an employee...just because the transaction took 10 minutes to complete doesnt mean he is only out the 1/6 of an hour's pay for that...you have to clean them, take a picture for the website or ebay, add it to the inventory and if it sells via the website or ebay, you have to pay paypal their cut, ebay fees if it was ebayed...it isnt a cut and dried "profit". The store where I worked for a number of years opened in 1989 and is still going strong, so save your "you wont be in business very long with your buying paractices" Timmy dig a lots are the BANE of a record store...thyey dont pay for records, they use stores basically as a library to check shit out at listening stations that they then try to go out into the field to buy and then will try to barter on a $10 record. "Diggers" do not keep stores in business...pure comedy.




I think a few other people beat you to calling it comedy, bullshit, plain bullshit, or No overflo you're wrong. They are all equating diggers with cheapskates, I was equating them with regular customers. Johnny paycheck cleared that up.





I'm not the person who said "you won't be in business very long".





I changed "diggers keep stores in business" to "diggers HELP keep...".





Argue with me & my 32 posts, call it comedy, I give a fuck. You all can keep laughing, but no one has convinced me that diggers are killing record stores. No one has admitted that other factors are much greater.

 

[JRoot]

[quote author="JRoot date=1317676031


Hi Jonny. I'm going to be in New York in early November. Are you going to be open say...Friday November 4 in the afternoon? Or Saturday, November 5? My record shopping windows are small these days, but I'd like to climb through if I can get my fat ass over the sill when no one's looking.





Love,


The second dude.

Friday seems a sure bet; as for Saturday, I remain reticent. Hit me up closer to the date and I'll be able to tell you for certain.




Is your store still on the same block as that quaint as hell coffee shop? Might be a way to convince wifey to head that way on Friday afternoon after we touch down in the city.